Vigilantes > Gameplay Discussion

Your thoughts on Enemy Facilities

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Daithi:
Hi, I'm going to start revising the code for enemy facilities in the near future, and figured it would be a good time to get some suggestions on the topic. Each gang will have a main facility (where the boss resides) and winning this mission is the requirement for beating the gang.

Outside that, each gang will be able to build facilities to increase cash flow and provide benefits to members, perhaps within a certain city tile radius. It's likely these facilities can be leveled up, though may restrict this to 2 levels. Current thinking: with level 1, you can directly assault the facility. At level 2, you will be intercepted by the enemy first, then have to proceed to the facility, which has a higher danger level.

Had originally planned to have more facility levels, with each assault damaging the facility and the gang attempting to repair it, but think this will create unneccessary repetition and require additional code complexity without really adding anything. Further, once a facility is found, it's a sitting duck and a higher level facility represents a lot of investment. Not keen on moving facilities, as they will likely provide a source of intel on gang leaders when destroyed. So, am heavily leaning toward low cost, but more facilities and one level up per facility.

Typically, the facilities will provide economic benefit and/or makes the troops more dangerous. Main facility aside, 1-2 facilities per gang is (perhaps some could be shared) feasible. Some thoughts:

Churcher: Elysium Facility (Dirty apt map) - provides a buff to churcher troops within x city tiles
Survivalist: Black Market - increases equipment level of troops by 1 within x city tiles

Also considering the possibility of being able to find a facility without requisite intel, by observing the effects (elysium addled churchers) in tiles, and determining the epicentre manually. It would be a nice bit of detective work, but not sure about how it would work functionally.

ushas:
Hi,

--- Quote from: Daithi on May 11, 2017, 11:57:25 AM ---Each gang will have a main facility (where the boss resides) and winning this mission is the requirement for beating the gang.
--- End quote ---
Can be interesting to know more, if you would like to share thoughts. But there is also something about keeping one's cards...

Anyway, it would be good to make it stand out with consequences to the player's campaign. A recognition in scripted dialogues and barks, mechanically as well, even some returning characters/units, etc... Overall also making the state in which the gang is at the moment of your final judgment more obvious here. I mean you can be putting out of misery just barely surviving gang, or critically hitting a giant at the peak of his empire.


--- Quote from: Daithi ---Outside that, each gang will be able to build facilities to increase cash flow and provide benefits to members, perhaps within a certain city tile radius.
--- End quote ---
A nice idea! 
lvl1- 3x3 ?
lvl2 - 5x5 ?...
- If there is another facility influencing the same tile their effect will be additive.
- If two gangs are temporary allies, influence of their facilities on both their tiles would add up too. Would need to be tested if feasible though.


--- Quote from: Daithi ---Had originally planned to have more facility levels, with each assault damaging the facility and the gang attempting to repair it, but think this will create unneccessary repetition and require additional code complexity without really adding anything.
--- End quote ---
Agreed.


--- Quote from: Daithi ---Further, once a facility is found, it's a sitting duck and a higher level facility represents a lot of investment. Not keen on moving facilities, as they will likely provide a source of intel on gang leaders when destroyed. So, am heavily leaning toward low cost, but more facilities and one level up per facility.
--- End quote ---
I don't know how the game logic works here. A speculation:
You can simply have the randomly positioned main facility from the beginning of the game. And then they will spam this secondary one over some time period if they have enough money to do it, and later choose between leveling it or building another one. The time period and money adjusted by the game's difficulty.

Where to place it can also be random but weighted, with a higher chance to end at the place where there is more neighboring tiles of the same gang, as that would benefit them more. I don't know what do you mean by moving facilities. If we destroy a facility and they have enough money, they can simply build another one I guess.

Does a facility have some running cost? (~> upping the cost adding the next)


--- Quote from: Daithi ---Typically, the facilities will provide economic benefit and/or makes the troops more dangerous. Main facility aside, 1-2 facilities per gang is (perhaps some could be shared) feasible. Some thoughts:

Churcher: Elysium Facility (Dirty apt map) - provides a buff to churcher troops within x city tiles
Survivalist: Black Market - increases equipment level of troops by 1 within x city tiles
--- End quote ---
As above are more local influences, what about asymmetrically make it for mafia benefit the whole system, eg: 

Mafia: Casino / hotel (money laundering) - increase wealth within x city tiles. Also the mafia units in the sphere of influence will drop more money...


--- Quote from: Daithi ---Also considering the possibility of being able to find a facility without requisite intel, by observing the effects (elysium addled churchers) in tiles, and determining the epicentre manually. It would be a nice bit of detective work, but not sure about how it would work functionally.
--- End quote ---
I like it. The aspect of rewarding cunning approach in itself is worth the consideration. However, the obvious question is how will the game recognize it was a detective effort not just a random stumble upon a facility?   

Suggestion:
Very high time-cost of intel level needed to uncover a facility (eg. 100% intel lvl on a tile). An assumption: it won't be feasible to probe blindly most of the tiles to that lvl, because the time needed would make the opposition grow too strong to overcome. On the other hand, being fairly sure you got a golden mine makes it more worth to selectively time-invest your surveillance efforts.
 
Right now 100% intel on a tile costs ~24h+, not much, but depends how the campaign will be balanced. I would balance [intel time cost <-> opposition grow] so that on the lowest difficulty one can do 100% intel on a whole city and still be able to win the game, whereas on the highest one you would really need to time-weight your actions, making more educated guesses (perhaps a principle to consider in general).

Of course, the 'requisite intel' (may I ask what it entails exactly?) can go around, perhaps telling the same more obviously? ("a facility on coors such and such", then doing 100% intel lvl there to get the mission)...

Nomad:
Add an Interrogation option.
You can interrogate a gang member about their own gang (at a penalty).
So, have an option to ask them whether a particular grid specifically has a facility. It's a yes/no question.
You can only ask this question for info on the gang you're interrogating. You can only question tiles that belong to that gang and have a certain level of surveillance.
Oooh... oooh... you can only ask them for the grid you're currently in. Because you're searching for the facility.

I like the idea of the facility levelling up. Your current level 1 and 2 suggestions sound reasonable.
I agree that making it harder from that point doesn't add anything, but I think the facility could level up further in order to increase the bonus and/or radius.

It sounds like you already have good ideas. Go for it.  =)

ushas:
That's... that's actually very good idea! Right now (v16) only choosing the gang directly influences what kind of intel we receive, all the other options increase chances at getting it. Though we could be getting better with higher chances, I don't know.

Anyway, let me kidnap the notion. Being able to demand info on specific districts (or leaders) makes the whole process more proactive. Goes well with any investigative efforts and making your own vigilante story. I can imagine running amok with paranoid feeling that there is something fishy in the area, and trying to force out of everybody "What's going on in the district [5b]?"...

Yeah, could potentially complicate a lot of things, can't foresee. On the other hand, a great potential. Tools in your hands is what makes games games.

Very roughly how it may go:

* <= rank 1 subject: only the option to pick a gang as of now (-> more random, but high intel % increase on a tile)
* >= rank 2 subject, apart above, offers two more options:
    (a) Enter any district coordinates,
    (b) Ask specifically about the current district (will have a higher chance than (a)).
Can get info on a facility or a leader's place. (-> more specific, but lower intel % increase on a tile). Perhaps having info from interrogation isn't necessarily enough (but makes one sure he is on the right track), you also have to reach required total level of intel (a level of reconnaissance work) on the city tile for a special encounter or a facility mission.

* Once you get at least one piece of information about an (under)boss you will also get an option to ask about this partially-known leader if subject is => appropriate rank to know. But only for the members of the same gang. That would also require some unique identification (not just "underboss"), so it's clear who is who. I dunno, what about individual military ranks, nicknames for mafia, and for the Church - perhaps being them about area ministries (eg. pastor of education, of evangelism)?
Edit: correction racket->spec. encounter

Daithi:
Good ideas. Nomad's facility finding idea could work

@ Ushas: Concerning main gang facilities: survivalists will be a bunker, church/mafia may be an office. Think the map will get bigger, so the number of tiles influenced will need to take overall map size into consideration. The high intel was the old way to find facilities, before interrogations, will think about offering both solutions. Your suggestion on randomly placing a facility and then cash dependently allowing them to build the lower level facilities is exactly what am planning. Facility running cost is factored into the amount of cash they make from criminal activity. Also like your ideas about asking about a specific underboss - if served up randomly, it could be frustrating finding them.

@ Nomad: Like this idea  - was considering the possibility of being able to query a tile once every x days, but this is a contender.

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