Income reduced

[Nomad]

You mentioned that you've reduced the money in the game because someone ended it with a spare 20 grand.
What difficulty were they playing on?

[Daithi]

It was on Vigilante, and without the investor perk. Do you think the cuts are too severe? I played for quite a few hours on hard-boiled and found had enough, but not excessive amounts of cash. There's also the ability to unload bullets in this update, which will reduce the amount that needs to be spent.

[Nomad]

It sounds like it's fine. You've had a play.
I haven't had a chance to really test it because I continued my existing game. I was just wondering.
Unloading will be so helpful. Previously I've been using Hotloaded and normal ammo to force a gun to unload. I was doing that a LOT, so this is a welcome addition.

[Daithi]

That's my take, but let me know if you think have cut down cash too much - you were doing that for unloading? master of micro

[Nomad]

Oh yeah... I was constantly unloading every rifle I found and selling it with 1 bullet left in it. PITA

I had to do it, otherwise I would have run out of ammo because my whole team is using the same ammo. The shop never stocks up enough to supply me.

[ushas]

I recall similar discussion on unloading during v20 or so. Then there was the ammo requirement change, think rifles switching from heavy to medium caliber. Curious how that changed the experience. Seems it lets you use the same ammo for everyone but ought to be more mindful and do unloading? Must say, balance-wise that sounds cool.

[Daithi]

Yeah, was planning to leave heavy for a handful of big weapons, and generally lower the ammo types. Too much cash in games is sort of a pet hate, allowing you to buy everything makes choices feel less meaningful. Possible have gone too far due to bias though

[Nomad]

As long as it's not a grind, then it's fine.
Grind is a pet hate of mine.

[codete]

I admit, I really hate the grindy ways to play. I believe that this change will help the game's economy become more balanced and fair.
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small project management

[Daithi]

Hope so. Would like to avoid grind as well as excessive amounts of spare cash.

[ushas]

Sounds like a quest for the holy grail, tbh. In an endless game, there is no way to stop people from accumulating money (or loot, or levels, etc.). On the other hand, value of money is based on useful things one is able to exchange for it. If there is eventually no use, money has no value and thus neither selling unneeded loot...

Let's say (please pardon me for such simplification) that there is something like functional minimum of cash one needs to obtain (~still a chance to beat), then confortable average (~enough but not overabundance), and some humanly reasonable maximum reached from minmaxing/grind (would multiply that by 2 because no human reasonable).

What if the problem can be divided into two? For example, the game's main economy to be primarily balanced somewhere around the average region around the things that have impact (guessing that's the aim), what feels right for you, and avoids the feel that one needs to grind on Vigilante difficulty for the majority of players. But in the same time, can also offer additional money sinks with significantly lower impact per money paid, so no player with too much cash will be left behind, yet the balance stays mostly undisturbed.

Facilities or buying useful items like ammo or crafting stuff - guess that would fall into the first category (unless you swim in ammo). The second one can either have things of low impact (handy if repeatable or with diminishing returns, eg. paying for a district intel %); or it can be also akin Ferrari. For example, if somebody manages to accumulate 100k Euro the game offers an option to pay off the Church CEO. A sort of getting a hidden alternative ending as a nod to the greedy playthrough. Those are just examples though.

The main point is that maybe it's not needed to be balanced around extremes as long as there is candy with nonzero sugar in it.

Btw. there is one handy money sink in the game already. You can buy levels from Cuda 

[Daithi]

Hey Ushas. Lower impact ways to spend extra cash sounds like a good idea. I'll gather some information on cash and start thinking about it.