Timeslip Softworks Forums
Vigilantes => Suggestions & Feedback => : Nomad September 23, 2017, 11:37:20 AM
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Unarmed still exists as loot. (I'm sure you're aware)
Mafia guy put his claw hammer away to fight unarmed.
Second guy put his away to fight. Then next round he brought it out again and used it. So I guess he's evaluating his attack chances.
Told me I didn't have enough ammo to reload my gun when I got back to base.
Now I have 6 of 8 bullets in my gun and the 40 ammo bug in my inventory.
When I ignored the 40 ammo (because I know it's not real) and bought some ammo at the shop, the ammo displayed with the correct quantity.
Toggle City Info is still available on the city map. (I guess you're waiting to get the other companions in before taking it out)
One of the Survivalist barks is "I've has worse in basic training."
Should be "had".
A Mafia Racket has been detected in this district. This is a level 0 facility, with a danger level of x.
Sometimes, (it appears to be after I've found a district that has no gang) I will reveal a gang in a district, but the Danger level or something will show up as the green tick.
It can be recreated. Do surveillance in a district with no gang. Then switch to a district with no surveillance info. Do surveillance and when the gang is revealed, some of the info has green ticks in it.
Insufficient intel to determine if an enemy racket has been established in this district. (see picture below)
Have the launch button for launching a racket mission. Clicking the button doesn't do anything (because I don't know about the racket in this district yet). =)
(https://scontent.fadl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21762046_1834292479934038_6491828723823866504_n.jpg?oh=e4e32c2317ebf0d37e7ec9befca8cd52&oe=5A3F365D)
I revealed a Mafia racket in a Survivalist district. Is this intended?
The Racket button doesn't do anything. It's a level 0 facility with a danger level of x. (see picture below)
(https://scontent.fadl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21686495_1834292503267369_8024533074656441882_n.jpg?oh=97424cd37717a250576e740fc0d181e0&oe=5A553060)
If a weapon doesn't have a different attack type, the order of the buttons changes.
When putting the entire team on Overwatch, I click Overwatch twice and then the button moves for Elena with her Bellum 9 SMG.
I took out a Survivalist facility.
Considering all the guns and crates of ammo around the place... I felt ripped off by what I bothered to carry away. Got two new rifles which dropped from enemies (not taken from gun racks) and then had a grand total of 3 bullets to put in them (I had those 3 bullets from before). The shop didn't have any and I'd sold my pistols before I realised.
We have the ability to hot load ammo. Can we please have the ability to craft ammo?
Furthermore in relation to ammo. I am fighting Survivalists with automatic rifles. I am collecting their guns. I still only have 3 High Calibre Bullets. The shop hasn't stocked any (probably been over 5 inventory refreshes since I've collected High Calibre rifles). Enemies are using the ammo, but not dropping it (they are not running out as the guns still have ammo, but I can't empty the ammo and take it).
I did a LOT of Overwatching. I didn't notice any issues.
Hit three times with the Bellum 9 and got several enemy barks. They display over top of each other.
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Unarmed still exists as loot. (I'm sure you're aware)
Thanks for checking it out. Yes, will tackle this soon.
Mafia guy put his claw hammer away to fight unarmed.
Second guy put his away to fight. Then next round he brought it out again and used it. So I guess he's evaluating his attack chances.
Probably trying to make 2 unarmed attacks at 3 ea, rather than 1 at 4.
Told me I didn't have enough ammo to reload my gun when I got back to base.
Now I have 6 of 8 bullets in my gun and the 40 ammo bug in my inventory.
When I ignored the 40 ammo (because I know it's not real) and bought some ammo at the shop, the ammo displayed with the correct quantity.
I haven't seen this happen, but will tackle soon.
Toggle City Info is still available on the city map. (I guess you're waiting to get the other companions in before taking it out)
Yeah, it allows you to get full team without too much effort.
One of the Survivalist barks is "I've has worse in basic training."
Should be "had".
Well spotted
A Mafia Racket has been detected in this district. This is a level 0 facility, with a danger level of x.
Sometimes, (it appears to be after I've found a district that has no gang) I will reveal a gang in a district, but the Danger level or something will show up as the green tick.
It can be recreated. Do surveillance in a district with no gang. Then switch to a district with no surveillance info. Do surveillance and when the gang is revealed, some of the info has green ticks in it.
I'll fix this is v21.
Insufficient intel to determine if an enemy racket has been established in this district. (see picture below)
Have the launch button for launching a racket mission. Clicking the button doesn't do anything (because I don't know about the racket in this district yet). =)
(https://scontent.fadl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21762046_1834292479934038_6491828723823866504_n.jpg?oh=e4e32c2317ebf0d37e7ec9befca8cd52&oe=5A3F365D)
I revealed a Mafia racket in a Survivalist district. Is this intended?
The Racket button doesn't do anything. It's a level 0 facility with a danger level of x. (see picture below)
(https://scontent.fadl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21686495_1834292503267369_8024533074656441882_n.jpg?oh=97424cd37717a250576e740fc0d181e0&oe=5A553060)
Will do something with rackets for V21, that's likely a default string. Left it as possible to find rackets with surveillance for this version, intel will most probably be required going forward.
If a weapon doesn't have a different attack type, the order of the buttons changes.
When putting the entire team on Overwatch, I click Overwatch twice and then the button moves for Elena with her Bellum 9 SMG.
Found this a little off putting too. Will try to do something with it, main reason haven't is that displaying all buttons at once for all weapon types will require more space and more options will mean the player will have to look through irrelevant buttons to find the one they need.
I took out a Survivalist facility.
Considering all the guns and crates of ammo around the place... I felt ripped off by what I bothered to carry away. Got two new rifles which dropped from enemies (not taken from gun racks) and then had a grand total of 3 bullets to put in them (I had those 3 bullets from before). The shop didn't have any and I'd sold my pistols before I realised.
Agree, loot needs to be looked at soon.
We have the ability to hot load ammo. Can we please have the ability to craft ammo?
Crafting is not entirely linked to workshop anymore. You need firing range/bullet press for hotloaded bullets and surgery for upgraded trauma kits.
Furthermore in relation to ammo. I am fighting Survivalists with automatic rifles. I am collecting their guns. I still only have 3 High Calibre Bullets. The shop hasn't stocked any (probably been over 5 inventory refreshes since I've collected High Calibre rifles). Enemies are using the ammo, but not dropping it (they are not running out as the guns still have ammo, but I can't empty the ammo and take it).
Not sure why you aren't getting ammo. As a temporary workaround, put sl into console and click a few times. This increases shop level. You can use rs to regen the shop.
I did a LOT of Overwatching. I didn't notice any issues.
Great, this was biggest worry.
Hit three times with the Bellum 9 and got several enemy barks. They display over top of each other.
Yeah, need to add code to handle this.
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Damn. Ahead of me again. How do you do it?:)
Mafia guy put his claw hammer away to fight unarmed.
Second guy put his away to fight. Then next round he brought it out again and used it. So I guess he's evaluating his attack chances.
Probably trying to make 2 unarmed attacks at 3 ea, rather than 1 at 4.
Saw it too, makes AI look smarter, tbh.
Or they first moved to you, so don't have enough for blunt weap. attack anymore but for the fists yes...
Yeah, having "Unload weapons" button/key would be great.
In the meantime, another workaround (I don't want to use that shop update) is to drag one piece of hot loaded ammo over the weapon -> think it'll unload all the regulars as they are not compatible. Busy work though and now requires facility.
If a weapon doesn't have a different attack type, the order of the buttons changes.
When putting the entire team on Overwatch, I click Overwatch twice and then the button moves for Elena with her Bellum 9 SMG.
Found this a little off putting too. Will try to do something with it, main reason haven't is that displaying all buttons at once for all weapon types will require more space and more options will mean the player will have to look through irrelevant buttons to find the one they need.
Haven't we talked about this before? It's the same situation as with launch/surveillance buttons on the cityscape. *insert the same arguments*
Disagree about "more options will mean the player will have to look through irrelevant buttons to find the one they need" being an issue. How long it would take to remember? First few uses of buttons I guess. Then muscle memory kicks in...
And that's the problem with constantly moving buttons. I never came to peace with that over all the versions. Want to do something quickly? - the hand automatically travels to the place - ups, the button is somewhere else again. Constant need to check where the guys are interrupts the flow of the battle. Key-binding additions in the last version were really saviors for me, but it doesn't change the situation for these who are primarily mouse users.
As for the space, was making a mock-up for this during v18-v19 before you mentioned gang intel screen. Had no problem with space for them. Anyway, the first change was: moving overwatch and turn delay buttons to the right, to have all the end turning ones on the same side. Was surprised where it was when v18 came out, but perhaps just me. But also doesn't make much sense choosing CTH % on the right and then the mouse has to travel all the way to the left.
Cool intro.
Thinking now about enhancing my dictionary with phrases like: "YO, SHELL ENTOR"
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Yeah, having "Unload weapons" button/key would be great.
In the meantime, another workaround (I don't want to use that shop update) is to drag one piece of hot loaded ammo over the weapon -> think it'll unload all the regulars as they are not compatible. Busy work though and now requires facility.
Agree concerning unload. It would be nice to have. Will see how time goes.
Haven't we talked about this before? It's the same situation as with launch/surveillance buttons on the cityscape. *insert the same arguments*
Disagree about "more options will mean the player will have to look through irrelevant buttons to find the one they need" being an issue. How long it would take to remember? First few uses of buttons I guess. Then muscle memory kicks in...
And that's the problem with constantly moving buttons. I never came to peace with that over all the versions. Want to do something quickly? - the hand automatically travels to the place - ups, the button is somewhere else again. Constant need to check where the guys are interrupts the flow of the battle. Key-binding additions in the last version were really saviors for me, but it doesn't change the situation for these who are primarily mouse users.
As for the space, was making a mock-up for this during v18-v19 before you mentioned gang intel screen. Had no problem with space for them. Anyway, the first change was: moving overwatch and turn delay buttons to the right, to have all the end turning ones on the same side. Was surprised where it was when v18 came out, but perhaps just me. But also doesn't make much sense choosing CTH % on the right and then the mouse has to travel all the way to the left.
We've talked about a similar thing before - would suggest this case is different. For the facilities / launch attack buttons there are 5 and 3 buttons. There are 13 combat buttons, excluding ones on right side. Not convinced having all 13 of them visible at all times is the best solution, though some are mutually exclusive. It may be as, or more confusing/thought intensive than only displaying relevant ones given the number.
You may be right about moving the OW/delay to the right side. Will have a think about this when a little less tired. Likely the best solution is to stack them in order of their likelihood to be relevant and add alternate textures for disabled state.
Glad you liked the intro :)
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We've talked about a similar thing before - would suggest this case is different. For the facilities / launch attack buttons there are 5 and 3 buttons. There are 13 combat buttons, excluding ones on right side. Not convinced having all 13 of them visible at all times is the best solution, though some are mutually exclusive. It may be as, or more confusing/thought intensive than only displaying relevant ones given the number.
You may be right about moving the OW/delay to the right side. Will have a think about this when a little less tired. Likely the best solution is to stack them in order of their likelihood to be relevant and add alternate textures for disabled state.
So it can look like this? -
LEFT
Image serves for change weapon
Small ones:
-- Action type toggle: walk, attack or use, throw (options depending on weapon)
-- Weapon modes toggle
-- Maintanence button: reload / unjam
-- Incapacitate toggle: peaceful / fatal
-- Stance toggle: crouch / stand
RIGHT
End Turn
Small ones:
-- Inventory
-- Character sheet
-- Delay turn
-- Overwatch buttons
-- Flee the battle button?
Seriously, we aren't piloting a helicopter. No offense, but thought intensive... um, how is that phrase - my arm?
Don't think anybody is advocating for currently not relevant ones to stay shining and be interactive (although liking when it says "stop fooling around"). The main issue the whole time is only the button dance. You definitely have a point about communicating irrelevancy to players.
Taking into account the likelihood of being relevant sounds good. I suppose there are several stages (relevant always > under certain circumstances > never)? Then to what it relates, but also simply how often used...
Grayed out/colored versions (as it's easy to edit textures), or applied transparency, or even making them disappear might work (but without moving?). Etc.
Edit: Guess, having tendency to trim fat. I realize there might be other and better ways, it's your call. The objective is only provide some point of view.
Glad you liked the intro :)
Yeah came here to be critical, it's easy to forget that there are also nice things to be mentioned.
Not that there wouldn't be like 100+1 small improvements possible:)
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Damn. Ahead of me again. How do you do it?:)
Just lucky I guess. =)
Saw it too, makes AI look smarter, tbh.
Or they first moved to you, so don't have enough for blunt weap. attack anymore but for the fists yes...
Yeah, I was thinking about this and was going to add a note.
You're completely correct.
They ran up to me, then changed to unarmed because they wouldn't have had enough to do the armed attack.
The first guy died after he ran up to us. The second lived and therefore switched to the heavier claw hammer for his next attack.
There's NO issue here. I think they all did the right thing.
Yeah, having "Unload weapons" button/key would be great.
In the meantime, another workaround (I don't want to use that shop update) is to drag one piece of hot loaded ammo over the weapon -> think it'll unload all the regulars as they are not compatible. Busy work though and now requires facility.
lol... yeah... you beat me to it. I thought about this last night.
I have 3 bullets. I'll hot load them and use them to empty 3 guns. =)
Also, just an observation.
The Investor Perk is appearing in the unavailable list.
It says it needs Sam and 30 Trade.
I am looking at it with Sam and he has 31 Trade.
However, he doesn't have any Perk points. Though, I expect this shouldn't matter, because if it did, then all Perks would appear unavailable.
So, not sure what's happening with the Investor Perk.
Edit: Note. My trade is now 32 and the Investor Perk is showing in the Available list. Not sure what was going on there.
LOL.... I can't hot load the 3 High Calibre rounds I have... because the crafting requires 10. It won't let me do just 3.
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Another bark spelling issue.
Mafia goon called out something.
"This arsehole is slippier than greased something..."
I don't know the exact wording.
slippier should be slipperier.
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Tag Perk.
Is the description correct?
I'm reading that it provides a 1.12% damage bonus.
That means... you get 1 extra damage for every 100 damage you do?
That doesn't seem right.
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Just lucky I guess. =)
Hm, hm... Suspecting your luck of timezone advantage:)
Tag Perk.
Is the description correct?
I'm reading that it provides a 1.12% damage bonus.
That means... you get 1 extra damage for every 100 damage you do?
That doesn't seem right.
The principle of balance in the Universe says that there ought to exist another game with another perk providing x12 damage bonus in description.
Could some of those spellings be deliberate?
For example - uttered by an enemy upon experiencing the bullet hit:
"You gunna pay for that."
Furthermore in relation to ammo. I am fighting Survivalists with automatic rifles. I am collecting their guns. I still only have 3 High Calibre Bullets. The shop hasn't stocked any (probably been over 5 inventory refreshes since I've collected High Calibre rifles). Enemies are using the ammo, but not dropping it (they are not running out as the guns still have ammo, but I can't empty the ammo and take it).
Not sure why you aren't getting ammo. As a temporary workaround, put sl into console and click a few times. This increases shop level. You can use rs to regen the shop.
Haven't encountered enemies with assult rifles yet. But did some long sleeping and checking the shop every day upon refresh. The first time I got high calibre rounds in the offer was on AUG 06 (Vigilante difficulty). You could buy assault rifles many times before that (like half a month already). Not saying anything is wrong, just not sure if intended.
On opposite note, if gradual way is desired maybe medium calibre and shotgun shells don't need to be available from the get go. (it took time before I saw first shotgun) Btw. looks always the same amount, 22 SCR - 22 MCR - 22 SS, for example. Was thinking, would it make sense if Cuda's ammo offer is somehow tied to the weapon offer of the day?
Ooo new items! Uh, Patriot is holding small caliber now?
The shop refresh mechanic itself - shopping more exciting.
Edit: Ha, I'm an idiot. Literally citing info about how to refresh the shop via console... but nope, I went and used the good old sleeping. :o
I suspect, however, that there will be some complains about the game being too hard. Mostly boils to getting used to the game rules though. That doesn't necessarily mean dumping down, esp. if would come from misunderstanding. But yeah, we two probably won't be able to tell how hard it is for newcomers.
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Yeah... I'm loving the new guns. They look cool.
And... thanks for the lack of ammo I am using different guns.
We were using the new two-shot semi-auto pistol, the Mac-10 looking sub (Elena's default gun, the Bellum 9), a sniper rifle and I was using the new assault rifle (Nobuki Samurai) and scavenging ammo from other guns.
Now I've got everyone using sniper rifles because I had the medium calibre ammo. I've also been buying up the High Calibre ammo when available and stripping ammo from assault rifles before I sell them. Now I've got over 100 rounds of High Calibre.... but I'm still using 4 snipers. Loving it.
All I ever used before was the Raskol 148 (or whatever that assault rifle was called).
I took out another facility.
Daithi... I have a question...
I attacked a Survivalist facility. I thought they were all armed with at least pistols. I got 4 Safe pictures for my loot window. I succeeded at opening all 4 Safes.
So, with everyone dead and getting loot... I only ended up with two pistols. I mean, I got some grenades and ammo... but... I'm not 100% sure... But I was expecting a lot more guns. It is possible that only two were armed... but I would swear they all were.
Is loot being collected at the end of a map?
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How do you beat a facility?
I've hit the same Survivalist base three times now. Two of those attacks were one after the other.
Am I supposed to be doing something? Or are facilities additional sites that they can choose to invest in, rather than Rackets which is what we are supposed to be shutting down.
I think I answered my own question. =)
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Oh. You got to the base, but without getting to the boss? That's good question.
Or do you mean like you attacked the same facility on the same tile right after? (did you get intel from each battle?)
Hm, a lot of things including battles cost time now. Would it be possible that they managed to build another one in between?
will tackle soon
We will report and brag about things but does it all need to be dealt with soon?
So far (10+ missions), no big bugs coming on my side (hadn't gotten as far as Nomad yet). Those small ones, I'm thinking about holding them captive till getting promise that they won't be tackled soon:) (or being berated for unprofessionalism, whichever comes first)
Btw., some games have threads about known issues and workarounds. As we're playing in advance, you may as well have something at hand for the EA launch. But depends what is applicable. Right now comes to my mind as useful to warn linux (and perhaps mac) players about alt-tabbing. If you want I can sum it up for them.
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I'm pretty sure Facilities don't work like Rackets.
I was attacking a Facility.
I don't believe I've found a Racket yet.
I have 33% intel on one Survival mini-boss and 66% on one Mafia mini-boss. I have no information about any Rackets.
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How do you beat a facility?
I've hit the same Survivalist base three times now. Two of those attacks were one after the other.
Am I supposed to be doing something? Or are facilities additional sites that they can choose to invest in, rather than Rackets which is what we are supposed to be shutting down.
I think I answered my own question. =)
Have sort of used enemy facilities & rackets interchangably - they are the same thing. So attacking one doesn't remove it?
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Tag Perk.
Is the description correct?
I'm reading that it provides a 1.12% damage bonus.
That means... you get 1 extra damage for every 100 damage you do?
That doesn't seem right.
Should be 12% ... whoops
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Oh. You got to the base, but without getting to the boss? That's good question.
Or do you mean like you attacked the same facility on the same tile right after? (did you get intel from each battle?)
Hm, a lot of things including battles cost time now. Would it be possible that they managed to build another one in between?
We will report and brag about things but does it all need to be dealt with soon?
So far (10+ missions), no big bugs coming on my side (hadn't gotten as far as Nomad yet). Those small ones, I'm thinking about holding them captive till getting promise that they won't be tackled soon:) (or being berated for unprofessionalism, whichever comes first)
Btw., some games have threads about known issues and workarounds. As we're playing in advance, you may as well have something at hand for the EA launch. But depends what is applicable. Right now comes to my mind as useful to warn linux (and perhaps mac) players about alt-tabbing. If you want I can sum it up for them.
It seems like they may not be removed... will tackle soon : )
Any bugs you report... will be tackled soon!
Good idea concerning known issues - will write up some info on this for steam page.
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Have sort of used enemy facilities & rackets interchangably - they are the same thing. So attacking one doesn't remove it?
Correct.
I believe the button to start a Facility attack shows up before the Facility is ready (the button is there, but it doesn't work).
Attacking the Facility doesn't remove it. I've hit the same one three times.
Should be 12% ... whoops
Is it just the description that's wrong? Does it function correctly?
Dammit... I came on here to ask a question about something that didn't feel right... but I answered these and forgot what I was going to ask.
Edit: I remembered. Do skills max out at 150? Elena's gun skill was at 151 and I couldn't spend any more points on it.
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Also... I'm interrogating the heck out of these people.
I keep getting the message that they want to spill, but they don't know any more than I do.
What is required to find out about Lieutenants? I only have 33% on one for one gang and I have one at 66% for another gang.
There are four of them per gang and no one is giving up the goods.
Is there some kind of requirement or trigger to gain more intel?
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Correct.
I believe the button to start a Facility attack shows up before the Facility is ready (the button is there, but it doesn't work).
Attacking the Facility doesn't remove it. I've hit the same one three times.
Okay, that's on the list for V21.
Is it just the description that's wrong? Does it function correctly?
Dammit... I came on here to ask a question about something that didn't feel right... but I answered these and forgot what I was going to ask.
Edit: I remembered. Do skills max out at 150? Elena's gun skill was at 151 and I couldn't spend any more points on it.
Yes, perk functions properly to the best of my knowledge - it's just the display string that is incorrect. Skill should be able to go higher than 150 (from automatic allocation), but by the sounds of it, you can't manually raise them any higher. 150 isn't necessarily the skill cap though, it will be revised later on.
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Yup... I've seen it go higher, I just can't increase it.
That's cool. It means I'll start spending the points on other skills now. =)
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It seems like they may not be removed... will tackle soon : )
Did survivalist training facility at G4. The mission including post mission looting took 6 hours. Afterwards: there is facility at G4. I think, getting what you were talking about, guys.
One more thing happened with that: no post-facility intel. Opened a bug thread for this. @Nomad, I think it would be useful if you can add anything to that. I did only one facility attack so far.
As I see it, if there is no intel from facilities we'are gonna have even harder time to reach gang leaders than during v19.
Any bugs you report... will be tackled soon!
Hm, as 'tackled soon' is conditioned by 'report'...
Oh, I see! No report -> not soon.
But ok. Will try to write up things during tomorrow.
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Went to check the shop page and... folks are mentioning bugs, I've failed! :'(
Will try to post the ones due from the last week with regard to what is reported on Steam forums in case of duplicates.
Are issues posted also somewhere else than there?
Btw., @Nomad, are you moving to Steam or staying here?
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I hate Steam with a passion that burns as brightly as a thousand suns.
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Wow, such a
n animoluminosity makes your passion a giant star!
May I ask why so much? (don't have to answer, of course)
Not a fan myself too, if not drm-free won't bother. Just that staying away is usually enough in terms of feelings from me.
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It all started with Half-life...
My girlfriend was studying in another city and I went to visit her for a while. I took my computer with me and decided that I would re-install half-life on it. I used the CD's I had and installed the game.
Then... it required me to use Steam...
I just wanted to play a bit of half-life. I had the CD's. The game is single player.
Steam refused to let me play.
I had to wait for half-life to update... over a dial-up connection.
Took much longer than 8 hours. I was livid.
Another time I bought a graphics card. The game Dirt 3 came with it.
I installed the graphics card and then went to install the game to run the card through it's paces.
That's when I got this lovely dialog box:
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22310416_1854563457906940_7378320412672233427_n.jpg?oh=cf29a468748f7b460dd6066a7ab5d8d6&oe=5A41CF9C)
I thought it was a bit strange, so I contacted Steam support.
They said: Send us a picture of the game box, the receipt, the CD key and I think they wanted something else... but I forget.
Now... this wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't back 2007 before mobile phones with camera's were a big thing. I had a film camera.
Sufficed to say I did what I could and Steam jerked me around for ages.... Three months in fact.
This is me contacting Steam, Eidos UK, and other help sites trying to get the game sorted.
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22405978_1854568041239815_280124855297254439_n.jpg?oh=1a66bad0f4ad649d0351a447e4c081d2&oe=5A70646A)
It was three months before I was even able to install the game.
I played it a bit, but was so soured by the experience of talking to a brick wall that I uninstalled it in disgust.
About a year later I thought that I probably didn't like Dirt 3 just because of how Steam treated me. So I went to reinstall it again... and got this message:
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22366690_1854568031239816_2755067327527879505_n.jpg?oh=9da3b82df02e44bc56e302b713ef6456&oe=5A3F6623)
I contacted Steam support and said something like: "I don't care about this game any more. I don't want to install it. What I DO want to know is why the key has been taken away. I fought for three months to prove I own the game. Does someone else have the same key. What is happening?"
Steam's response was: Send us a picture of the game box, the receipt, the CD key and I think they wanted something else... but I forget.
I replied telling them to fuck off and left it at that.
Funnily enough... many years later... when they released the Dirt 3 Complete Edition... I got a copy. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Another time I logged on to Steam I was greeted with this screen:
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22405533_1854563464573606_6116295189527018050_n.jpg?oh=0a1982fe420a6b91c8a9ac55fa982350&oe=5A39FE3C)
That's a little dude telling me to F-off.
Another time I bought Mafia II from the shop, took it home and went to install it and got this screen:
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22491452_1854571187906167_6644865797134722222_n.jpg?oh=e5a281c8a91ef6fbe457de402f035f7f&oe=5A6C8B0F)
So on and so forth.
Effectively I keep Steam in offline mode. Then when I go online for one of the few games that is online only, Steam and I play a game of "Guess which games Steam will disable". I play mostly single player games. Yet Steam refuses to let me play them if the developer has added Steam controller support. Or updated the game to support some language I don't speak. These are games that I don't go online with yet I can't choose whether to update or not.
The one that pisses me off... I was playing a game called Satelite Reign.
One day I couldn't play it until I updated it. The update was the developer disabling the cloth in the game because some people were having issues with the cloth. Until Unity fixed the cloth issue, they disabled it.
I WASN'T having an issue with the cloth. I LIKED the cloth. Tough luck. No cloth for you.
No choice.
Hate it.
GoG
GoG have got it right. You don't have to use it. You don't have to patch. It's wonderful.
It's the place to go if you want to get the latest official patches, but you aren't forced to use them.
When I jump on to play a game for 20 minutes... I don't want to be spending that 20 minutes watching Steam update the single player game.
And all this.... doesn't even touch on the fact that Steam can simply take all your games away from you.
They pretend they're a shop front. But they're not.
They're not a shop, they're more like a game's arcade where you have to enter to play.
When you buy at a shop, if you violate the shop's conditions of entry, they kick you out and you can't buy from them any more. They don't come to your house and remove everything you've bought from them previously.
Also... the examples above are not all of the reasons I hate Steam. This has been going on since Half-Life was released.
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First of all, appreciated all that write-up. You're good at documenting.
In a way being lucky not to have such first hand experiences. Steam wasn't supporting Linux long time. In 2007 not many games run natively anyway. For a change, I was probably spending half a day trying to get Planescape: Torment running under the wine program ('not' an emulator of win). Playing then felt like you earned it:)
Being a child of the open source world, the philosophy is more about the right tools for the job, specialized building blocks, and liberty. All in one solutions are in conflict.
Seems to me Steam is offering comfort for players and developers alike, in exchange of autonomy. Great if everything goes well and if not being out of norm, but when doesn't, enjoy feeling powerless...
GOG is... better:)
But we should be making backups. 8)
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I'm an old-school gamer. Or, should that read "I'm an old gamer"?
I have a collection of computer games starting from back in the old five-and-a-quarter-inch floppy disk days.
I'm used to buying a game, installing it and playing it. When it doesn't work like that, I get annoyed.
I used to get cracks for all my games because I thought it was laughable that game publishers thought that their disk was the only one I'd have in my drive.
Swapping disks constantly to play different games was just never realistic.
Steam has cheapened the game's market. Just look at the absolute deluge of garbage on Steam. They opened the floodgates for any shitty developer to dump their barely playable garbage.
Not to mention Steam sales.
How does that help developers? "Oooh... that game looks interesting. I'll wait for a Steam sale."
Why pay full price when you KNOW that the game will be discounted sometime soon.
(by the way... if you buy a game on GoG and then it goes on sale shortly after, they give you credit of the difference, as though you bought it at the sale price)
Steam's cheapened the whole thing and the only one that has benefited financially... is Steam. They take a huge cut for just being a "store front".
My wife, and one of my best friends, love Steam. Both of them fully understand why I hate it. My friend even jokes that Steam has a flag on my account that tells them to f*@# me over.
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Went to check the shop page and... folks are mentioning bugs, I've failed! :'(
Will try to post the ones due from the last week with regard to what is reported on Steam forums in case of duplicates.
Are issues posted also somewhere else than there?
Btw., @Nomad, are you moving to Steam or staying here?
There are some bugs, not dozens/hundreds of bugs - you have succeeded : )
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It all started with Half-life...
My girlfriend was studying in another city and I went to visit her for a while. I took my computer with me and decided that I would re-install half-life on it. I used the CD's I had and installed the game.
Then... it required me to use Steam...
I just wanted to play a bit of half-life. I had the CD's. The game is single player.
Steam refused to let me play.
I had to wait for half-life to update... over a dial-up connection.
Took much longer than 8 hours. I was livid.
Another time I bought a graphics card. The game Dirt 3 came with it.
I installed the graphics card and then went to install the game to run the card through it's paces.
That's when I got this lovely dialog box:
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22310416_1854563457906940_7378320412672233427_n.jpg?oh=cf29a468748f7b460dd6066a7ab5d8d6&oe=5A41CF9C)
I thought it was a bit strange, so I contacted Steam support.
They said: Send us a picture of the game box, the receipt, the CD key and I think they wanted something else... but I forget.
Now... this wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't back 2007 before mobile phones with camera's were a big thing. I had a film camera.
Sufficed to say I did what I could and Steam jerked me around for ages.... Three months in fact.
This is me contacting Steam, Eidos UK, and other help sites trying to get the game sorted.
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22405978_1854568041239815_280124855297254439_n.jpg?oh=1a66bad0f4ad649d0351a447e4c081d2&oe=5A70646A)
It was three months before I was even able to install the game.
I played it a bit, but was so soured by the experience of talking to a brick wall that I uninstalled it in disgust.
About a year later I thought that I probably didn't like Dirt 3 just because of how Steam treated me. So I went to reinstall it again... and got this message:
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22366690_1854568031239816_2755067327527879505_n.jpg?oh=9da3b82df02e44bc56e302b713ef6456&oe=5A3F6623)
I contacted Steam support and said something like: "I don't care about this game any more. I don't want to install it. What I DO want to know is why the key has been taken away. I fought for three months to prove I own the game. Does someone else have the same key. What is happening?"
Steam's response was: Send us a picture of the game box, the receipt, the CD key and I think they wanted something else... but I forget.
I replied telling them to fuck off and left it at that.
Funnily enough... many years later... when they released the Dirt 3 Complete Edition... I got a copy. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Another time I logged on to Steam I was greeted with this screen:
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22405533_1854563464573606_6116295189527018050_n.jpg?oh=0a1982fe420a6b91c8a9ac55fa982350&oe=5A39FE3C)
That's a little dude telling me to F-off.
Another time I bought Mafia II from the shop, took it home and went to install it and got this screen:
(https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22491452_1854571187906167_6644865797134722222_n.jpg?oh=e5a281c8a91ef6fbe457de402f035f7f&oe=5A6C8B0F)
So on and so forth.
Effectively I keep Steam in offline mode. Then when I go online for one of the few games that is online only, Steam and I play a game of "Guess which games Steam will disable". I play mostly single player games. Yet Steam refuses to let me play them if the developer has added Steam controller support. Or updated the game to support some language I don't speak. These are games that I don't go online with yet I can't choose whether to update or not.
The one that pisses me off... I was playing a game called Satelite Reign.
One day I couldn't play it until I updated it. The update was the developer disabling the cloth in the game because some people were having issues with the cloth. Until Unity fixed the cloth issue, they disabled it.
I WASN'T having an issue with the cloth. I LIKED the cloth. Tough luck. No cloth for you.
No choice.
Hate it.
GoG
GoG have got it right. You don't have to use it. You don't have to patch. It's wonderful.
It's the place to go if you want to get the latest official patches, but you aren't forced to use them.
When I jump on to play a game for 20 minutes... I don't want to be spending that 20 minutes watching Steam update the single player game.
And all this.... doesn't even touch on the fact that Steam can simply take all your games away from you.
They pretend they're a shop front. But they're not.
They're not a shop, they're more like a game's arcade where you have to enter to play.
When you buy at a shop, if you violate the shop's conditions of entry, they kick you out and you can't buy from them any more. They don't come to your house and remove everything you've bought from them previously.
Also... the examples above are not all of the reasons I hate Steam. This has been going on since Half-Life was released.
I can feel the anger from all the way over here :)
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I can feel the anger from all the way over here :)
I'm not surprised, seeing as:
I hate Steam with a passion that burns as brightly as a thousand suns.
=)
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There are some bugs, not dozens/hundreds of bugs - you have succeeded : )
Ok... If you say so... : )
(not that bug reports themselves made them go away, by the way)
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I'm an old-school gamer. Or, should that read "I'm an old gamer"?
I have a collection of computer games starting from back in the old five-and-a-quarter-inch floppy disk days.
I'm used to buying a game, installing it and playing it. When it doesn't work like that, I get annoyed.
I used to get cracks for all my games because I thought it was laughable that game publishers thought that their disk was the only one I'd have in my drive.
Swapping disks constantly to play different games was just never realistic.
That's neat. Do you still grow your collection with physical mediums today?
I remember was so happy to get Baldurs Gate on 6 cds. But couldn't run it:/ So, um, borrowed the internet edition. Yeah cracks... those were often needed to be able to run games under wine at all. It's strange. You know, if we would all acted in accordance to licenses they wouldn't have so many customers...
Steam has cheapened the game's market. Just look at the absolute deluge of garbage on Steam. They opened the floodgates for any shitty developer to dump their barely playable garbage.
Not to mention Steam sales.
How does that help developers? "Oooh... that game looks interesting. I'll wait for a Steam sale."
Why pay full price when you KNOW that the game will be discounted sometime soon.
(by the way... if you buy a game on GoG and then it goes on sale shortly after, they give you credit of the difference, as though you bought it at the sale price)
Steam's cheapened the whole thing and the only one that has benefited financially... is Steam. They take a huge cut for just being a "store front".
The word which comes to mind is a monopol. They are google in this, not much sense in competing unless one comes with something groundbreaking.
They've canceled the greenlight. I dunno if Steam Direct will change anything. But, yeah, the catalogue is already quite huge, isn't it...
Edit: Oh, just look at this:
https://steamdb.info/genres/
25K products in total!
But fear not, only 2166 of them are EA 8)
Though what's with the sales, wondering, does one have a say in when and how much his game is discounted?
My wife, and one of my best friends, love Steam. Both of them fully understand why I hate it. My friend even jokes that Steam has a flag on my account that tells them to f*@# me over.
Heh. Long time ago, there was this one day during which my head was hit four or five unrelated times (lost the count), not a once it was [completely] my fault. At the end of the day was paranoid even towards own bed! It's like you are asking for it or something ;D
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(not that bug reports themselves made them go away, by the way)
*Clutches chest, gasps, and collapses* :)
@Nomad: Think there was something similar with HL2 that bugged me. It's annoying, but a good move from their perspective to convert HL buyers into steam users. Their big hit games probably made the platform. Concerning the products being removed though, that's most likely to do with the publishers. Have mixed feelings about Steam sales devaluing games, on one hand, it's promoting the idea that games shouldn't be bought at full price, but the sales can also be pretty good, though less so as the catalogue grows. TBH I think bundles are a much bigger threat than Steam Sales, and possibly subscription models if they take off
@Ushas: You can choose whether to opt in on a sale or not
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@Nomad: Think there was something similar with HL2 that bugged me. It's annoying, but a good move from their perspective to convert HL buyers into steam users. Their big hit games probably made the platform. Concerning the products being removed though, that's most likely to do with the publishers. Have mixed feelings about Steam sales devaluing games, on one hand, it's promoting the idea that games shouldn't be bought at full price, but the sales can also be pretty good, though less so as the catalogue grows. TBH I think bundles are a much bigger threat than Steam Sales, and possibly subscription models if they take off
Surely it's not publishers that pull your games, but Steam.
If I violate the Steam terms of service, or if the service shuts down, then I can't play any of my games on Steam. This hasn't happened to me, but that's not my point.
Why would you, or 2K games tell Steam to pull access to your games because someone... I don't know... cheated at Team Fortress 2 too much.
I actually got on here to congratulate you so far on having 10 positive reviews on Steam and no negative ones. Hopefully that helps it build up. Best of luck.
Edit:
Do you still grow your collection with physical mediums today?
Sometimes. Less so now with digital taking up most of the software space.
Now it's more likely Kickstarter where I'll get the physical box.
For example, I've signed up for (and may or may not eventually get physical copies of):
Star Citizen
Shroud of the Avatar
Wasteland 3
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Surely it's not publishers that pull your games, but Steam.
If I violate the Steam terms of service, or if the service shuts down, then I can't play any of my games on Steam. This hasn't happened to me, but that's not my point.
Why would you, or 2K games tell Steam to pull access to your games because someone... I don't know... cheated at Team Fortress 2 too much.
I actually got on here to congratulate you so far on having 10 positive reviews on Steam and no negative ones. Hopefully that helps it build up. Best of luck.
You're right, never thought of the TOS or cheating angle. Wouldn't have a problem with cheaters being banned in the game they are cheating in, but it would be unfair for them to lose the collection. Dunno if this has happened. Publishers can also revoke keys, sometimes they do this to gray market keys, if they have been bought with stolen credit cards or the likes. It seems unlikely that Steam would go under, but it would mean a lot of angry gamers if it did :) - have been burned by smaller distributers shutting down and not paying out on sales. I suspect in one case, they actually sold the unused keys they had. As much as would like to support and work with smaller distributors, will likely stick to Steam GOG Humble in the future.
Cheers, it's a good enough start :)
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Joining the congrats and luck wishes. Oh, seems 10 is a good number for the store page statistics :)
For example, I've signed up for (and may or may not eventually get physical copies of):
Star Citizen
Shroud of the Avatar
Ouch. Now, you need some luck:) Hope it will eventually end good, but seriously, they ought to stop selling virtual ships and houses. Besides one can buy land on Mars instead.
- have been burned by smaller distributers shutting down and not paying out on sales. I suspect in one case, they actually sold the unused keys they had.
That's unfortunate.
I recall using Desura before they went down. Though Itch.io seems all right, good for appraising free games. Sent bucks to Heroine quest devs, for example.
To be fair, GoG can also revoke access, but according to the current version of agreement policy they give 60 days period to download what already own. That's the benefit of drm free. Can imagine Steam can afford to pull more. There are always two sides of agreement, so if also publishers are able to do something it's because Steam allows that.
You can choose whether to opt in on a sale or not
Sounds limiting, tbh. At least you can gift keys in a promotion or so. Is this the reason to use middle-shops that sell steam keys? I've been confused why one would do that, as the end customer has to have a Steam account anyway...
Btw. 17 new EAs launched in five days.
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Ouch. Now, you need some luck:) Hope it will eventually end good, but seriously, they ought to stop selling virtual ships and houses.
To be fair, GoG can also revoke access, but according to the current version of agreement policy they give 60 days period to download what already own. That's the benefit of drm free.
Yes.... Star Citizen is suffering from feature bloat. I dislike their ship selling... but I'm not buying them, so I don't care if it helps them get it done.
Shroud of the Avatar seems even more mercenary to me in regards to them selling digital assets. They are trundling along though, so once again, I'm not buying them so I don't care too much. I think it just looks bad.
GoG can go down... but that doesn't affect anyone that has already installed the game(s) they bought.
All the games I own on GoG can be played whether I use GoG or not.
All the games I own on GoG can be played whether I have internet or not.
Neither of those points can be said of Steam, even for their single player games.
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There have been two things you probably already dealt with/decided, but just in case:
-- possibly shop offer inconsistencies (see this thread)
-- not getting intel as well as racket not removed from the map after successful facility attack (if those are to be in v21)
Yes, and then Patriot is set to shoot small caliber initially, but medium caliber after upgrading. Shouldn't it be medium all the time? There is no chamber change or so.
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The shop offer inconsistencies is the lack of high calibre ammo? If so, have reduced the calibre of assault rifles to medium - it's likely high calibre will be for machine gun, and a couple of other high damage weapons.
Will do some racket attacks and figure out what's going on there.
Will keep patriot as is. It's been pointed out that pistols have disadvantages compared to other weapons, so using more common & cheaper ammo seems to be a good move.
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Huh, you can re-read the feedback for yourself. I dunno what is or isn't intended or important. Apart HCR, recall Nomad not having enough ammo initially or so? While the higher calibers are offered but nothing to use them in yet. Etc...
Edit: though I don't remember much about the shop anymore, there wasn't interest to discuss it, so probably unimportant now. Will try to play all ranged party next version.
Don't know the arguments of has been pointed out, but balancing into making things samey usually pose a question, how does it make the game more fun... Thought revolvers being in the higher dam category than semi-auto pistols is their distinct trait. So it's a kind of surprise for me. However, the main point was only about that they use two different calibers.
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Did scan through it looking for the issue with the shop you were referring to, nearest thing found was the ammo. Will read again when less square eyed!
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Was really only making a note in case it was on your own todo list. The shop having its first iteration and such. Seems it wasn't, so don't worry about it. Carry on, don't mind me please:)
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The only problem I've had with the shop so far is that ammo only seems to be added as 20 round lots and High Calibre ammo rarely came in at all.
I did the "up-level" the shop through the debug console and refreshed it a bunch of times. Ammo was still tight though.
This is just some tweaking that needs to be done to the shop inventory generation.
I suggested handloading. You have a workshop. Buy gunpowder and primers. Keep the empty shells and collect some lead. Use the workshop to make our own. Takes time and less money than buying bullets outright.
If possible... limit to how many bullets we already had (which is more work to implement) as we are reusing the shells. That's not required though.
Or... just make the shop generate a random number of shells, rather than just 20 (which is probably already intended).
I like the idea of handloading though. =)
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Thanks for info. Probably misremembered the ammo thing then.