Half-cover and diagonal pathing

[ushas]

Read the steam discussion about attacking diagonally. Enemies were doing that all the time, good it's allowed for us too.

However, hand to hand with that goes the question: why not allow the pathing itself diagonally around half-cover objects?

I've been collecting screenshots over time for this, so some examples follow.

The argument is that even when some clippings happen, it still looks more intuitive to allow diagonal pathing. As far as memory serves, half-cover objects are usually narrower, or have round corners. Perhaps taller tombstones or wide boxes might pose clipping issues, but units move fast, not so easy to notice.

For me the most strange it's around trees, I almost reported this as a pathfinding bug (it isn't):






Diagonal allowed around people, but not around half-cover:







Noted that going diagonally around new barrel objects is allowed... perhaps this direction was already contemplated?

Just to be clear, only talking about diagonal pathing around half-cover, not around full-cover.

[Daithi]

The difference with melee attacks is that most will happen above half cover, so clipping is not very obvious. In some cases diagonal movement won't clip, but in other cases (for example vehicles, tombstones, walls) it will clip badly. While I agree in principle, there's no easy way to distinguish based on cover level. Trying to change this would necessitate work on all 40 maps (each half cover object will have to be evaluated and modified). In many cases each individual object (not just the type of object) would need work. Since enemies also have same constraints, it's a "fair" system. To be honest, wouldn't be very hopeful about this being changed.

I'll look at the barrels, diagonal movement wasn't intended here.

[ushas]

I see. For some reason thought, if attacks were possible to change globally, so might be turning on diagonal pathing around half-cover. Adjusting per object / map is a lot of work indeed.

Although I understand, complications don't go away. Perhaps won't be bad to have them on mind, in case anything else helps?
1. Non-intuitiveness: Given that most of the half-cover objects take only small space of the tile square or have round corners (cars, bins), it's counter-intuitive, esp. with recheable tiles highlight turned off (taken from pov that offering an option is declaring support). Shields help here, but you don't see them till the mouse hovers over the thing.
2. Limiting maneuvering: No problem with any rules, but combine a small map with low AP numbers, and you have limited maneuvering options. In some situations, map objects are more detriment to moving than useful for defense, esp. for CC characters. Easier to outplay enemies. So I would recommend adding new objects with caution.

Of course those things can be also used as pros. Non-obvious half-cover slalom on missions where we or enemies flee might be fun.

I'll look at the barrels, diagonal movement wasn't intended here.

So far have seen no problems with diagonally walking around barrels. Is it problem to allow it for destructible objects?

[Daithi]

I see. For some reason thought, if attacks were possible to change globally, so might be turning on diagonal pathing around half-cover. Adjusting per object / map is a lot of work indeed.

Although I understand, complications don't go away. Perhaps won't be bad to have them on mind, in case anything else helps?
1. Non-intuitiveness: Given that most of the half-cover objects take only small space of the tile square or have round corners (cars, bins), it's counter-intuitive, esp. with recheable tiles highlight turned off (taken from pov that offering an option is declaring support). Shields help here, but you don't see them till the mouse hovers over the thing.
2. Limiting maneuvering: No problem with any rules, but combine a small map with low AP numbers, and you have limited maneuvering options. In some situations, map objects are more detriment to moving than useful for defense, esp. for CC characters. Easier to outplay enemies. So I would recommend adding new objects with caution.

Of course those things can be also used as pros. Non-obvious half-cover slalom on missions where we or enemies flee might be fun.

I'm with you on the non-intuitive. Wouldn't completely rule anything out, will have to see how it plays out.

So far have seen no problems with diagonally walking around barrels. Is it problem to allow it for destructible objects?

Sorry think I misunderstood your comment - thought diagonal movement was happening on barrels in V21. Allowing it for any tile with a structure will require changes to how tiles are connected and likely pathfinding.
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[ushas]

Oh, sorry, it's the new gas canister I think. This one:

[Daithi]

Yeah, just noticed it happening. Something unexpected must be happening when it tries to factor the interactable objects into the map. An inverse of the removed gate problem