Author Topic: Three new perks for v15  (Read 946 times)

ushas

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Three new perks for v15
« on: April 04, 2017, 11:45:03 PM »
Looking forward to them!
Cit. taken from the main v15 topic.

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Insult (Increases critical chance vs this character)
- does it work like Tag! perk?

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Nocturnal (Increase AP, damage, damage resistance at night; lower CTH during day)
- Interesting! I was thinking too that it would be neat if day / night cycle influences the combat gameplay.
- If it's potent enough I can imagine that as a theme for one of the gang leaders and his party. Not sure how feasible is apart from the perk on the leader to set for them some other advances during night time, like better equipment (so night mission here = high risk & high reward)... Perhaps some careful investigation may reveal info about their activities... 
- Do you plan to add the opposite perk?
- Do I understand it right that daybreak / nightfall have no effect?

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Critical Charge (Successful melee or firearm attacks increase crit chance on subsequent attacks)
- will it stack till I miss or does it work in one turn only?
- And will then the charging start again from zero?
- Does it take into account if I change modes or weapons in between?

Daithi

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Re: Three new perks for v15
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 09:32:35 AM »
Hi Ushas, you won't have to wait long, I'm building the windows V15 now. I'll do the Linux version next. Good chance it will be available before the end of the day.

Re Insult:
Yes, insult works the same way. Not sure if it's potent enough yet.

Re Nocturnal:
May well add an opposing perk, undecided yet, and how exactly it would work with having both of them.
No effect in terms of gameplay, so far anyway.

Re Critical Charge:
It will stack until you make a critical hit, and once you get a critical, it goes back to the baseline crit chance of your current weapon. It's independent of weapons, so you can switch as needed.

ushas

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Re: Three new perks for v15
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 09:27:23 PM »
Re Nocturnal: May well add an opposing perk, undecided yet, and how exactly it would work with having both of them.
Well as I see it from the description it would cost two perk points and the unit experiences both cons & pros at both times day & night. Though nobody says it has to do the same thing. I would actually like, in case you decide to have both, if they can go into different directions. As if fitting different play styles. And if having both perks could differentiate day vs. night gameplay even further for such party member, favoring who is able to adapt.

I dunno, an example close to what you implemented (just changed cons of Nocturnal):
Nocturnal (+1 AP,  +10% damage,  -10% damage taken at night  |  -10% damage during day)  -> +/- 20% dam night vs. day
Diurnal      (+2 initiative,  +5% CTH,          +5 evasion during day       |      -5% CTH at night )               -> +/-10% cth day vs. night

Though I'm not married to this exact setup, not sure how it will play out.

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Re Critical Charge: It will stack until you make a critical hit, and once you get a critical, it goes back to the baseline crit chance of your current weapon. It's independent of weapons, so you can switch as needed.
Statistically overall it's not so far away from flat % crit chance boost, such as like More Criticals perk in FT (flat +5%). Closer difference is that we either have higher chance later (charge) or more from early on (flat chance increase). Depending I can imagine shooting with pistols and later switch to precision rifle.

Additionally, you can charge crit chance as well as crit damage with this perk -> would make somebody with low initial crit chance bigger hitter when it lands eventually, as he accumulates higher crit. damage. (is it 150% of base dam? then what about +5% each hit till it crits, or so?...)


Was thinking to ask, whether you're considering to do something with Precise Strike perk (+3% crit chance with bladed weapons)?

I would propose to boost it significantly or better use there more general effect of the More Criticals perk (+%5 crit chance, req. just lvl?) mentioned above instead. This can be take up to 3 x in FT IIRC. So it's also good candidate if you would be open to let us take some perks more times. If somebody takes also charge, that would be serious commitment to criticals as it will all cost 4 perk points.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 10:43:16 PM by ushas »

Nomad

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Re: Three new perks for v15
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2017, 03:16:36 AM »
If you're going to put a counter-perk to Nocturnal, then I'd suggest that only one can be taken per character.
Once one is taken, the other is not available.

You are either a night person or a day person.
Just an opinion.

ushas

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Re: Three new perks for v15
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 09:40:47 PM »
Why?
I mean are there any gameplay rules to demand that and to what type of perks specifically they apply?

Nomad

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Re: Three new perks for v15
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2017, 01:23:04 PM »
Just going by my opinion (hence me saying "Just an opinion.") and by my understanding of general gameplay convention.

While I agree that there should be no reason not to have some kind of Day Perk, usually these sorts of Perks have a bonus when used during the selected time and a penalty when out of that time. They're intended as a trade off. Effectively if you have both, they really should just cancel each other out, not give you bonuses all day and night.

ushas

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Re: Three new perks for v15
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 09:19:38 PM »
Thanks for explanation. I see it differently though.

First of all, I would say that the question whether there is any reason to have the second perk hasn't been actually answered yet.

Especially if it would work exactly the way how you described I would argue there is no reason (more so making restrictions on top of it). There isn't even difference in day/night gameplay so far. So apart from appearances it wouldn't matter which one of such two perks one take.

So why having more than one perk based on time of the day in Vigilantes? For myself perhaps it's worth if each offers something different or simply help differentiate time-of-day gameplay in various ways. Additionally, because more time-specific, such perks could also offer bigger edge.

There are many options, practically we are talking about situational perks, additional trade-offs are just optional. It can also look like:

Night Fighter:   +dam       & +crit chance           & but +dam. taken from 20:00 to 08:00
Night Guard : ++evasion & --damage taken   & but -AP                    from 20:00 to 08:00

or

Long distance vision: +2 effective range & +10% cth in good  light conditions (~ during day)
                                            +1 effective range & +05% cth in so so light conditions (~ morning / evening)
Camouflage training: lower chance to be hit
                                   in dark conditions (~ night time):                        from -10% in open up to -40% in full cover                         
                                   in low-light conditions (~ morning /evening): from  -5% in open up to -20% in full cover
                                   
etc... whatever makes each offer something different...

Or just one perk taken more times instead, eg. 2 x Nocturnal, also makes difference bigger.
                                           
Obviously, for better or worse I'm unaware of such general gameplay conventions you've mentioned. However, that means your feedback is actually a spot on. Because gut feelings give us a great indication that there is potentially something wrong. I'm just not so sure about proposed solution - implementing two canceling each other perks with exclusivity.