Author Topic: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated  (Read 107 times)

ushas

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Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« on: August 30, 2017, 01:51:39 PM »
Ok. Let's not believe my treacherous memory. Probably works as you said. There are many aspects at play that might influence perception. Think what I wanted to say is that in 13 regular missions on the main path of Vigilante difficulty so far (btw. not killing this time) got intel on Lieutenants once, otherwise only tiles. What I perceived as specialists may not be promoted yet, or if I got them into interrogation -> wasn't lucky to get intel... I suppose, as the game goes we will see them more and more often? So perhaps promotions is something to keep an eye on as well? 

Also, usually letting some enemy flee if possible.

Let's not believe my treacherous programming ability either :) Increasing promotion chance is certainly possible, or revising how it happens. Would be wary to make too many of them appear early in the game. Yes, you will see Tier2 troops more often as the game continues. Intel on lieutenants/rackets should be slow starting out, but would hope this would increase over time. It's something I'd be interested in feedback on in relation to number of missions/time spent.

Another possibility is providing a piece of intel as a result of a dialogue encounter.
So tried to pay attention to this more during two missions yesterday. As I easily could misunderstood what's going on (do specialisations tie to tiers? what means foot soldier? etc.), will just describe. Decide for yourself if works as intended (feel free to move this post):

Mission with mafia on danger 3 zone: had two guys with coats (black & brown). I think those were specialists, in the log:
Code: [Select]
GangDataScript.GenerateGangMember. Method called. Gang No is: 0 char level: 5 specialisation in: 1 danger level: 3
GangDataScript.AddGangCharacterEquipment. Method called. gang equipment level: 1 specialisation equipment bonus: 1 final equipment level: 2
...
GangDataScript.GenerateGangMember. Method called. Gang No is: 0 char level: 5 specialisation in: 2 danger level: 3
GangDataScript.AddGangCharacterEquipment. Method called. gang equipment level: 1 specialisation equipment bonus: 1 final equipment level: 2

So should I get one of them in interrogation?
Got neither of those two.

After incapacitated everybody, it was a regular troop - Daria Urberti:
Code: [Select]
InterrogationManager.SetupInterrogation. Total Enemies: 7 incapacitated enemies: 7 killed: 0 chance to find conscious enemy: 100 has found conscious enemy: True
InterrogationManager.SetupInterrogation. Found Interrogation subject
InterrogationManager.BeginInterrogationOrIntelGathering. Method called. Has living subject: True
InterrogationManager.GetEnemyToBeInterrogated. Method called.
InterrogationManager.GetEnemyToBeInterrogated. Will interrogate enemy at pos: 0 name: Daria Urberti
InterrogationManager.SwitchToChooseInterrogatorPhase. Method called
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Method called. Player team count: 4
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Sam Contino is not temp character.
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Sam Contino is combat capable.
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Ray Case is not temp character.
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Ray Case is combat capable.
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Emilia DeSoto is not temp character.
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Emilia DeSoto is combat capable.
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Elena Furey is not temp character.
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Elena Furey is combat capable.
InterrogationManager.AddCombatCapableInterrogators. Potential interrogators: 4
InterrogationManager.ChooseInterrogator. Method called. Interrogator position is: 0 attacker name: Sam Contino
InterrogationManager.CalculateChanceToBreak. Attacker: 57 Defender: 68Chance: 41.91177
InterrogationManager.UpdateChanceToBreakText. Method called
ChooseInterrogatorUIScript.ChooseThisInterrogator. Method called.
InterrogationManager.ChooseInterrogator. Method called. Interrogator position is: 0 attacker name: Sam Contino
InterrogationManager.CalculateChanceToBreak. Attacker: 57 Defender: 68Chance: 41.91177
InterrogationManager.UpdateChanceToBreakText. Method called
InterrogationManager.ChooseGangToGetIntelOn. Asked for intel on gang: 1 this criminal belongs to gang: 0
InterrogationManager.CalculateChanceToBreak. Attacker: 57 Defender: 68Chance: 41.91177
InterrogationManager.UpdateChanceToBreakText. Method called
Interrogation.RoughDefenderUp. Method called. Close combat skil: 63 divider: 5 defender penalty: -12
InterrogationManager.CalculateChanceToBreak. Attacker: 57 Defender: 56Chance: 50.89286
InterrogationManager.UpdateChanceToBreakText. Method called
InterrogationManager.CheckIfPlayerHasSodiumThiopental. Method called
InterrogationManager.CheckIfPlayerHasSodiumThiopental. Found thiopental on character 0 at pos: 0
GameDataScript.ClearZeroCountItemsFromPassedList. Method called. Passed list has: 2
GameDataScript.ClearZeroCountItemsFromPassedList. Method complete. Number of items remaining in list: 2
InterrogationManager.CalculateChanceToBreak. Attacker: 57 Defender: 41Chance: 69.51219
InterrogationManager.UpdateChanceToBreakText. Method called
InterrogationManager.CalculateChanceToBreak. Attacker: 57 Defender: 41Chance: 69.51219
InterrogationManager.UpdateChanceToBreakText. Method called
InterrogationManager.CompleteInterrogation. Attacker Rating: 57 defender rating 41 chance to break: 69.51219
CharacterMainScript.CheckIfAttackCritical. Success! Roll chance: 69.51219 Random number (must be lower): 44
InterrogationManager.SearchGangTilesForUnrevealedIntel. Method called. Gang no: 1
InterrogationManager.SearchGangTilesForUnrevealedIntelOfLevel. Tile (4.0, 4.0) has revealed occupying gang
Btw. I think she was the last one to go down in that battle.


The next mission was in danger 3 with survivalists. Again two guys with peculiar portraits, one with Normandy and the other one with a shotgun. (btw. the rest had patriots, I sold all their loot for ~700 Euro). The party incapacitated specialists the last. Judging by the portrait I got one of them in interrogation, but the game then says he is "Foot soldier" (see attached image)? Wasn't lucky to obtain any intel, so not sure what he would give away...


PS: One more question - is their tier in the gang hierarchy in any way directly or indirectly related to their character level (aka lvlup per n days variable)?

Daithi

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 03:18:55 PM »
Yeah, it appears that the mafia characters at least are not being recognised as specialists (tier 2) troops. They can reveal info on a lieutenant or racket.

In the second case, that is a survivalist specialist (shouldn't be labelled as foot soldier), but it could be randomly selected, so will look over the code.

PS: One more question - is their tier in the gang hierarchy in any way directly or indirectly related to their character level (aka lvlup per n days variable)?

They start at tier 1 (foot soldiers) and have a chance to become a tier 2 (specialist) when they level up. I believe the higher the level, the higher the chance of this happening.

ushas

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 08:01:13 PM »
Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, if they are not recognized as tier 2 on the input of interrogation, then it makes sense what's going on. Thus also one of the reasons why our progress was slower. However, I recall seeing "Tier 2" or similar on interrogation screen in the past, not sure if during this or past versions.

They start at tier 1 (foot soldiers) and have a chance to become a tier 2 (specialist) when they level up. I believe the higher the level, the higher the chance of this happening.
I see, makes sense. Asked because as far as I remember, one of the differences between difficulties is how fast they level up, accompanied with less starting money for players. Does this then mean we will be seeing higher tiers earlier in time on higher difficulties?

If yes -> at least technically, means we can collect all the important intel pieces earlier in ingame time. However, that's not bad. On the contrary, if the higher difficulties are meant to reward smarter time-saving play (eg. taking more missions in the same amount of time, more strategical surveillance, etc.), then such behavior is in harmony with intentions.

Uff. I guess, am pondering over this because in general there is a slight possibility that difference in ingame time may somehow influence real play time. Again, that would be actually neat feature, unless it means overly long play for the lowest difficulty. So just something to watch out.

Daithi

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 04:24:53 PM »
I see, makes sense. Asked because as far as I remember, one of the differences between difficulties is how fast they level up, accompanied with less starting money for players. Does this then mean we will be seeing higher tiers earlier in time on higher difficulties?

Uff. I guess, am pondering over this because in general there is a slight possibility that difference in ingame time may somehow influence real play time. Again, that would be actually neat feature, unless it means overly long play for the lowest difficulty. So just something to watch out.

Yes, expect higher level troops earlier on harder difficulties.

It's definitely a valid concern. At present, there is a small chance of an enemy having information above their level - this could be increased for easier difficulties to compensate.

ushas

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2017, 09:24:42 PM »
Sometimes being paranoid and taking screenshot when seeing anything new has its pros. So have one for that sole instance when I got intel on a lieutenant during interrogation and by look of it, it's the same situation as with the survivalist spec. above: the portrait looks like specialist but the interrigation screen says "Foot soldier".

At this point (Vigilante, lvl 15, Aug 07, ~20+ missions, 3 facilities destroyed), the party has 33% detection for one lieutenant for each gang (1x from interrogation and 2x from facility intel). Plus got 33% detection for survivalist main facility, it seems?

I have strong suspicion, that those specialists are, indeed, falsely labeled as rank 1 for interrogation. Could I just have triggered this rare chance of getting intel above their level? Incapacitated 10+, probably more close around 20 spec. guys.

Daithi

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2017, 09:50:17 PM »
This is good info. Can I ask how you found the facilities? I'm guessing given the random map loading, they are just loading? Or are you getting intel on them and assaulting them? They are supposed to require intel to find too.

The rate of intel gain is one of the first things will work on post EA. It's much, much slower than anticipated. How much time do you reckon you've put in to get this far?

ushas

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2017, 10:34:39 PM »
Can I ask how you found the facilities? I'm guessing given the random map loading, they are just loading? Or are you getting intel on them and assaulting them? They are supposed to require intel to find too.
May or may not type fast... Answered this like in a minute and half later in the enemy facilities thread. No they are not loading randomly, the game says I found them via district surveillance (abround 60% min) and switches to debriefing (shows void icons though). Then on cityscape is a button next to the arrow one (hadn't know this when posted a mockup) - I use that to launch a facility mission deliberately.

Wait. If you don't know about this feature...
Oh no... Please don't tell me this is a feature bug again!  :-\
(seriously, one has something to look forward to and guess when doing intel on citiscape, so I thought it's intended)

The rate of intel gain is one of the first things will work on post EA. It's much, much slower than anticipated.
No problem. But I'm trying to say this is a bug. Or at least doesn't work how you said it should, putting balancing rates aside. Thought you want people to see some strategical progress at the start of EA too?

How much time - seriously I'm unable to assess. Often replaying stuff just to test something, before returning to the main branch to continue. So it's better to talk in number of missions - my last save is like "After[mission]23" including facilities, but not initial and allies. How long each battle is - also hard to guess due to testing, but it's faster than in previous versions. Could it be max 30 min? Then >13h of play. But that's probably wrong estimate...
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 11:24:58 PM by ushas »

Daithi

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2017, 09:56:24 AM »
No they are not loading randomly, the game says I found them via district surveillance (abround 60% min) and switches to debriefing (shows void icons though). Then on cityscape is a button next to the arrow one (hadn't know this when posted a mockup) - I use that to launch a facility mission deliberately.

Wait. If you don't know about this feature...
Oh no... Please don't tell me this is a feature bug again!  :-\
(seriously, one has something to look forward to and guess when doing intel on citiscape, so I thought it's intended)

I just missed something when changing the facility detection from surveillance based to intel + surveillance based. In terms of complexity, it's trivial. May just leave it for now.

No problem. But I'm trying to say this is a bug. Or at least doesn't work how you said it should, putting balancing rates aside. Thought you want people to see some strategical progress at the start of EA too?

How much time - seriously I'm unable to assess. Often replaying stuff just to test something, before returning to the main branch to continue. So it's better to talk in number of missions - my last save is like "After[mission]23" including facilities, but not initial and allies. How long each battle is - also hard to guess due to testing, but it's faster than in previous versions. Could it be max 30 min? Then >13h of play. But that's probably wrong estimate...

There's not much for them to progress to at the minute. No dialogue, very little balance work for gang leadership. I've marked it clearly that you can't complete the game on EA notes. I get that there's a bug there too, have a suspicion will check it out today.

I'd guess battles are likely maybe 15-20, but depends on how is played. How long do you think Vigilantes would be engaging for? (hard to get a handle on, over so much testing). Got some bad reviews on last game for it being too long. I was think 15-20 hours would be a good amount of time.

If @Nomad is reading, be good to get your thoughts on this!

ushas

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2017, 01:30:01 AM »
Yeah, Nomad would be better to advice you on this. I'm mixing too much.

There's not much for them to progress to at the minute. No dialogue, very little balance work for gang leadership. I've marked it clearly that you can't complete the game on EA notes.
In that case, if you don't want for people play too long and too far on the start of EA, perhaps add some info screen to be shown at the point when it's best to stop? (I dunno, for example, when played ~10h and got enough intel on one lieutenant, the the point can shift gradually with development)

I Don't mean complete stop, but something like skippable soft warning. For example, in the spirit of: Dear player, thank you for your time, hope you had fun. Raiker city is much safer now! At this point your story is still in progress. For the best experience, we advise not play much further, but nothing is stopping you if you wish to continue.

If collecting statistics, it can also list summaries there, eg. number of enemies incapacitated (or put in jail if you prefer), killed, facilities attacked, etc.

I just missed something when changing the facility detection from surveillance based to intel + surveillance based. In terms of complexity, it's trivial. May just leave it for now.
I suppose you mean intel piece from interrogation or other facilities? If that is required first before even be able to find the facility, then the whole anticipation when doing surveillance on city map is lost, because even when you have enough intel lvl, you don't know it. Frankly, surveillance is more fun than interrogation.

On the other hand, if you can detect facility via surveillance, but interrogation is still required for be able to launch attack (i.e. asking about facility, how we can get in -> then it activates the button) - that seems to me like different story.   

Nomad

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 03:29:27 AM »
Length of game comes down to enjoyment. Take XCom 2. I have a love/hate relationship with that game. I love the game but absolutely hate the U.I. and controls.
Ignoring the hate side... I play the Long War mod (for both XCom and XCom 2). It adds a lot of extra stuff... but geez it gets boring. Fight after fight after fight after fight. They have different "scenarios", but it all feels the same. It just drags so much. It gets boring.

I enjoy Vigilantes. However, if the Long War people got a hold of it, it would get boring pretty darn quick.
Vigilantes has those little variety missions. They make a massive difference. Developing more of those over time will make a huge difference (as not all of them involve combat).
I am happy with the accumulation of stuff and the things we get to spend our money on. I expect that the save that I gave you (Daithi) would be about half way through the game.

Game length is something that I suspect would be REALLY easy to set up.
You put a bunch of variables, like the speed that the enemy levels, rate of intel gathering, etc and you make a game option of Short, Medium or Long (perhaps with a Very Long option too). The player chooses and then it sets the rate of advancement.

I'd pick Long (or Very Long). Others can pick what they want. I expect that many will select Short for their first game to try it out and then go from there.

Choice. Everyone is different. You can't please everyone. If you set it at a particular rate, then you'll have to get it just right to hit the most number of people. Add an option and the people can choose what appeals to them and you'll hit close to everyone that enjoys the gameplay.

Daithi

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 10:32:35 AM »
I suppose you mean intel piece from interrogation or other facilities? If that is required first before even be able to find the facility, then the whole anticipation when doing surveillance on city map is lost, because even when you have enough intel lvl, you don't know it. Frankly, surveillance is more fun than interrogation.

On the other hand, if you can detect facility via surveillance, but interrogation is still required for be able to launch attack (i.e. asking about facility, how we can get in -> then it activates the button) - that seems to me like different story.

I'm going to leave as is for now. There is a problem at present in terms of how fast intel is gained, so sizable changes will be required. Not married to the idea of intel being required for rackets, however, rackets are much more strategically valuable than lieutenants, so it would make sense to have their requirements at least as high. A fully upgraded racket costs 6-8k, so I think it needs to be more substantially protected.

Maybe there's a solution in the possibility of some of the work being done through surveillance, and some being done through interrogation.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 10:34:44 AM by Daithi »

Daithi

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2017, 10:43:16 AM »
Length of game comes down to enjoyment. Take XCom 2. I have a love/hate relationship with that game. I love the game but absolutely hate the U.I. and controls.
Ignoring the hate side... I play the Long War mod (for both XCom and XCom 2). It adds a lot of extra stuff... but geez it gets boring. Fight after fight after fight after fight. They have different "scenarios", but it all feels the same. It just drags so much. It gets boring.

Curiousity: what bugs you about XCom controls/UI? I played it recently, quite enjoyed it, but the repetitiveness got to me. Was pretty much forcing myself to play by the end. Was thinking about trying long war, then I heard people saying it can take 100+ hours, so decided to pass. No way I'd spend that long on it.

I enjoy Vigilantes. However, if the Long War people got a hold of it, it would get boring pretty darn quick.
Vigilantes has those little variety missions. They make a massive difference. Developing more of those over time will make a huge difference (as not all of them involve combat).
I am happy with the accumulation of stuff and the things we get to spend our money on. I expect that the save that I gave you (Daithi) would be about half way through the game.

Definitely open to expanding mission variety. Would hope for maybe around 10 non combat encounters too.

Game length is something that I suspect would be REALLY easy to set up.
You put a bunch of variables, like the speed that the enemy levels, rate of intel gathering, etc and you make a game option of Short, Medium or Long (perhaps with a Very Long option too). The player chooses and then it sets the rate of advancement.

I'd pick Long (or Very Long). Others can pick what they want. I expect that many will select Short for their first game to try it out and then go from there.

Choice. Everyone is different. You can't please everyone. If you set it at a particular rate, then you'll have to get it just right to hit the most number of people. Add an option and the people can choose what appeals to them and you'll hit close to everyone that enjoys the gameplay.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards this possibility. Could be hard to balance with multiple settings, (it's going to be hard with one) but can see the merits. If the number of pieces of intel was reduced and the gang leader starting level reduced, it would allow players to find the gang leaders more quickly and be in a position to actually beat them more quickly too.

Nomad

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2017, 03:48:44 AM »
Curiousity: what bugs you about XCom controls/UI? I played it recently, quite enjoyed it, but the repetitiveness got to me. Was pretty much forcing myself to play by the end. Was thinking about trying long war, then I heard people saying it can take 100+ hours, so decided to pass. No way I'd spend that long on it.
U.I.
They don't give you the information you want/need unless you dig in several layers (designed for console).
If I equip a Psi-Shield on a soldier and then see a Sectoid in the field, I have no way of knowing which soldier has the Psi-Shield equipped.
If a soldier is stunned, panicked or otherwise incapacitated, I have no way of checking their skills or equipment to determine whether my medic should snap them out of it or just take a shot themselves.
Eg: does that panicked Grenadier have a grenade left? If yes, then revive and let him bomb the enemy. If not, then reviving him effectively wasted the turn because the Medic could have gone on Overwatch and taken two shots at any moving enemy (Grenadier would only have one attack).
When I am equipping the squad that is going on the mission, they have left and right arrows at the bottom to cycle through soldiers. This does NOT cycle through the soldiers you have in the current squad. It cycles through your entire roster (and is therefore effectively useless).
When I am selecting soldiers to take on a mission I have to go into the soldier's skills to find out if they have the skills and abilities that I want. Then I step back and go into their gear to see what gear they have. Then I back out and select the next soldier to find out what their skills and abilities are. Then I have to check their gear... etc, etc, etc. Why aren't their skills and loadout all available and visible at the selection screen?
I could go on... but this should be sufficient.

Controls
Oh God... I hate this so bad. Move your camera out and check exactly where your Assault could reach. Determine the ideal position for him to run to where he could take a flanked shot with his Run and Gun ability. Ok... I'm ready... Click the Run and Gun ability and the camera shoots you off to centre on the Assault. Time to go hunting for that ideal spot again.
Constantly fighting the camera. I'll tell the Grenadier that I want to launch a grenade and then fight the camera as it tries shooting around all over the place while I'm trying to line up the shot.
Auto-selecting soldiers. I've NEVER had the auto-select be helpful. This is to make it easier for console controls. It jumps to the next soldier when you finish the actions of your current soldier.
Eg: I'll have three soldiers over here that I want to put on Overwatch as I know that my scout is going to reveal a group of enemies that just walked over there. I'll put the first one on Overwatch and the camera will shoot off, halfway across the map to another soldier. I then move my camera back and set the second one on Overwatch and the camera will shoot off, halfway across the map to another soldier. Then I have to move all the way back to the third and set Overwatch... camera shoots off... Then move it over to the scout and get him to reveal the aliens. *sigh*
I could give you a heap of examples of how when the game switches to the next soldier it's completely inappropriate in a tactical computer game.
Camera control - For Christ's sake... it's a AAA 3D modelled computer game. In any big budget 3D computer game you hold down the middle mouse button and you can rotate the camera wherever you want to see the action. Not in XCom. No. In XCom it's set up for a controller (console pedigree). It's set up for a key to go clockwise and a key to go counter clockwise in set increments. You can't even change the angle. In a game that has multiple level buildings it is an absolute pain the arse to try and wrangle a camera angle where you can see. They set up this thing where it put a target icon next to the enemy's name if you would see them from a particular square. This is so you could see if moving to a spot would allow you to take a shot. Ok. Problem is that if you are zoomed up to be able to see the enemies name... then it thinks you want to go on the roof and you can't select the spot on the ground floor where you wanted to move to. If you are able to see the ground floor where you want to move to, then you can't see the enemy and can't tell if you can take that shot. Multi-level 3D environments do not work with this level of camera control.
I think that covers a few examples of bad controls.
I'm also fairly sure that they didn't let you select a soldier once they'd had their turn... but I think you can now.

Quote
Definitely open to expanding mission variety. Would hope for maybe around 10 non combat encounters too.
Sounds good.

Quote
Yeah, I'm leaning towards this possibility. Could be hard to balance with multiple settings, (it's going to be hard with one) but can see the merits. If the number of pieces of intel was reduced and the gang leader starting level reduced, it would allow players to find the gang leaders more quickly and be in a position to actually beat them more quickly too.
I really think it would be the way to go. That way people could play an extended campaign if they wanted to without others being pissed off about it being too long.

Nomad

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 03:16:58 AM »
Ok... here's a current example for XCom 2.
I've had an influx of cash and so I've built a heap of body armour for my A-team. (It's Predator Armour in the Long War 2 mod, but that doesn't affect the following)

I select my A-Team. They are arrayed in front of me. I get to see their name and the equipment in their... err... belt? I can see the guns they are using, but can only guess at what mods I'm seeing.

In order to equip the new armour I need to select the soldier and click Edit (remember, this is after I've already selected the squad).
Then I need to select Loadout (I can't even see what gear they have until I do this).
Then I can see their actual gear. This is the point where I can set their armour. This is also the point where I discover that a soldier is already wearing the armour I want and I came in here for no reason. Assuming they don't have the armour already, I then need to click the armour and select it.
Then I click back.
Then I click back.
Then I can select the second soldier and select Edit....
I need to do all this for each soldier in my squad.

It's a royal pain in the arse.
You can't even see a list of their gear until you go right in to loadout.

F-ing console development teams.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 03:19:17 AM by Nomad »

Daithi

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Re: Highest tier enemy not always being interrogated
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 11:13:02 AM »
Yeah, I take your point, it's a lot of clicking to get info/do stuff. XCom seems to go for very minimalistic UI (the amount of space the UI uses in combat is tiny) - think this does improve the overall appearance of the game, but there are a lot of tabs, presumably to facilitate easier play with controllers.