Author Topic: V20 feedback  (Read 393 times)

Nomad

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V20 feedback
« on: September 23, 2017, 11:37:20 AM »
Unarmed still exists as loot. (I'm sure you're aware)

Mafia guy put his claw hammer away to fight unarmed.
Second guy put his away to fight. Then next round he brought it out again and used it. So I guess he's evaluating his attack chances.

Told me I didn't have enough ammo to reload my gun when I got back to base.
Now I have 6 of 8 bullets in my gun and the 40 ammo bug in my inventory.
When I ignored the 40 ammo (because I know it's not real) and bought some ammo at the shop, the ammo displayed with the correct quantity.

Toggle City Info is still available on the city map. (I guess you're waiting to get the other companions in before taking it out)

One of the Survivalist  barks is "I've has worse in basic training."
Should be "had".

A Mafia Racket has been detected in this district. This is a level 0 facility, with a danger level of x.

Sometimes, (it appears to be after I've found a district that has no gang) I will reveal a gang in a district, but the Danger level or something will show up as the green tick.
It can be recreated. Do surveillance in a district with no gang. Then switch to a district with no surveillance info. Do surveillance and when the gang is revealed, some of the info has green ticks in it.

Insufficient intel to determine if an enemy racket has been established in this district. (see picture below)
Have the launch button for launching a racket mission. Clicking the button doesn't do anything (because I don't know about the racket in this district yet). =)



I revealed a Mafia racket in a Survivalist district. Is this intended?
The Racket button doesn't do anything. It's a level 0 facility with a danger level of x. (see picture below)



If a weapon doesn't have a different attack type, the order of the buttons changes.
When putting the entire team on Overwatch, I click Overwatch twice and then the button moves for Elena with her Bellum 9 SMG.

I took out a Survivalist facility.
Considering all the guns and crates of ammo around the place... I felt ripped off by what I bothered to carry away. Got two new rifles which dropped from enemies (not taken from gun racks) and then had a grand total of 3 bullets to put in them (I had those 3 bullets from before). The shop didn't have any and I'd sold my pistols before I realised.

We have the ability to hot load ammo. Can we please have the ability to craft ammo?

Furthermore in relation to ammo. I am fighting Survivalists with automatic rifles. I am collecting their guns. I still only have 3 High Calibre Bullets. The shop hasn't stocked any (probably been over 5 inventory refreshes since I've collected High Calibre rifles). Enemies are using the ammo, but not dropping it (they are not running out as the guns still have ammo, but I can't empty the ammo and take it).

I did a LOT of Overwatching. I didn't notice any issues.

Hit three times with the Bellum 9 and got several enemy barks. They display over top of each other.

Daithi

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 12:23:35 PM »
Unarmed still exists as loot. (I'm sure you're aware)

Thanks for checking it out. Yes, will tackle this soon.

Mafia guy put his claw hammer away to fight unarmed.
Second guy put his away to fight. Then next round he brought it out again and used it. So I guess he's evaluating his attack chances.
Probably trying to make 2 unarmed attacks at 3 ea, rather than 1 at 4.

Told me I didn't have enough ammo to reload my gun when I got back to base.
Now I have 6 of 8 bullets in my gun and the 40 ammo bug in my inventory.
When I ignored the 40 ammo (because I know it's not real) and bought some ammo at the shop, the ammo displayed with the correct quantity.
I haven't seen this happen, but will tackle soon.

Toggle City Info is still available on the city map. (I guess you're waiting to get the other companions in before taking it out)
Yeah, it allows you to get full team without too much effort.

One of the Survivalist  barks is "I've has worse in basic training."
Should be "had".
Well spotted

A Mafia Racket has been detected in this district. This is a level 0 facility, with a danger level of x.

Sometimes, (it appears to be after I've found a district that has no gang) I will reveal a gang in a district, but the Danger level or something will show up as the green tick.
It can be recreated. Do surveillance in a district with no gang. Then switch to a district with no surveillance info. Do surveillance and when the gang is revealed, some of the info has green ticks in it.

I'll fix this is v21.

Insufficient intel to determine if an enemy racket has been established in this district. (see picture below)
Have the launch button for launching a racket mission. Clicking the button doesn't do anything (because I don't know about the racket in this district yet). =)



I revealed a Mafia racket in a Survivalist district. Is this intended?
The Racket button doesn't do anything. It's a level 0 facility with a danger level of x. (see picture below)

Will do something with rackets for V21, that's likely a default string. Left it as possible to find rackets with surveillance for this version, intel will most probably be required going forward.

If a weapon doesn't have a different attack type, the order of the buttons changes.
When putting the entire team on Overwatch, I click Overwatch twice and then the button moves for Elena with her Bellum 9 SMG.
Found this a little off putting too. Will try to do something with it, main reason haven't is that displaying all buttons at once for all weapon types will require more space and more options will mean the player will have to look through irrelevant buttons to find the one they need.

I took out a Survivalist facility.
Considering all the guns and crates of ammo around the place... I felt ripped off by what I bothered to carry away. Got two new rifles which dropped from enemies (not taken from gun racks) and then had a grand total of 3 bullets to put in them (I had those 3 bullets from before). The shop didn't have any and I'd sold my pistols before I realised.
Agree, loot needs to be looked at soon.

We have the ability to hot load ammo. Can we please have the ability to craft ammo?
Crafting is not entirely linked to workshop anymore. You need firing range/bullet press for hotloaded bullets and surgery for upgraded trauma kits.

Furthermore in relation to ammo. I am fighting Survivalists with automatic rifles. I am collecting their guns. I still only have 3 High Calibre Bullets. The shop hasn't stocked any (probably been over 5 inventory refreshes since I've collected High Calibre rifles). Enemies are using the ammo, but not dropping it (they are not running out as the guns still have ammo, but I can't empty the ammo and take it).
Not sure why you aren't getting ammo. As a temporary workaround, put sl into console and click a few times. This increases shop level. You can use rs to regen the shop.

I did a LOT of Overwatching. I didn't notice any issues.
Great, this was biggest worry.

Hit three times with the Bellum 9 and got several enemy barks. They display over top of each other.
Yeah, need to add code to handle this.

ushas

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 03:27:06 PM »
Damn. Ahead of me again. How do you do it?:)

Mafia guy put his claw hammer away to fight unarmed.
Second guy put his away to fight. Then next round he brought it out again and used it. So I guess he's evaluating his attack chances.
Probably trying to make 2 unarmed attacks at 3 ea, rather than 1 at 4.
Saw it too, makes AI look smarter, tbh.
Or they first moved to you, so don't have enough for blunt weap. attack anymore but for the fists yes... 

Yeah, having "Unload weapons" button/key would be great.
In the meantime, another workaround (I don't want to use that shop update) is to drag one piece of hot loaded ammo over the weapon -> think it'll unload all the regulars as they are not compatible. Busy work though and now requires facility.


If a weapon doesn't have a different attack type, the order of the buttons changes.
When putting the entire team on Overwatch, I click Overwatch twice and then the button moves for Elena with her Bellum 9 SMG.
Found this a little off putting too. Will try to do something with it, main reason haven't is that displaying all buttons at once for all weapon types will require more space and more options will mean the player will have to look through irrelevant buttons to find the one they need.
Haven't we talked about this before? It's the same situation as with launch/surveillance buttons on the cityscape. *insert the same arguments*
Disagree about  "more options will mean the player will have to look through irrelevant buttons to find the one they need"  being an issue. How long it would take to remember? First few uses of buttons I guess. Then muscle memory kicks in...

And that's the problem with constantly moving buttons. I never came to peace with that over all the versions. Want to do something quickly? - the hand automatically travels to the place - ups, the button is somewhere else again. Constant need to check where the guys are interrupts the flow of the battle. Key-binding additions in the last version were really saviors for me, but it doesn't change the situation for these who are primarily mouse users.

As for the space, was making a mock-up for this during v18-v19 before you mentioned gang intel screen. Had no problem with space for them. Anyway, the first change was: moving overwatch and turn delay buttons to the right, to have all the end turning ones on the same side. Was surprised where it was when v18 came out, but perhaps just me. But also doesn't make much sense choosing CTH % on the right and then the mouse has to travel all the way to the left.



Cool intro.
Thinking now about enhancing my dictionary with phrases like: "YO, SHELL ENTOR"

Daithi

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 05:03:35 PM »
Yeah, having "Unload weapons" button/key would be great.
In the meantime, another workaround (I don't want to use that shop update) is to drag one piece of hot loaded ammo over the weapon -> think it'll unload all the regulars as they are not compatible. Busy work though and now requires facility.

Agree concerning unload. It would be nice to have. Will see how time goes.

Haven't we talked about this before? It's the same situation as with launch/surveillance buttons on the cityscape. *insert the same arguments*
Disagree about  "more options will mean the player will have to look through irrelevant buttons to find the one they need"  being an issue. How long it would take to remember? First few uses of buttons I guess. Then muscle memory kicks in...

And that's the problem with constantly moving buttons. I never came to peace with that over all the versions. Want to do something quickly? - the hand automatically travels to the place - ups, the button is somewhere else again. Constant need to check where the guys are interrupts the flow of the battle. Key-binding additions in the last version were really saviors for me, but it doesn't change the situation for these who are primarily mouse users.

As for the space, was making a mock-up for this during v18-v19 before you mentioned gang intel screen. Had no problem with space for them. Anyway, the first change was: moving overwatch and turn delay buttons to the right, to have all the end turning ones on the same side. Was surprised where it was when v18 came out, but perhaps just me. But also doesn't make much sense choosing CTH % on the right and then the mouse has to travel all the way to the left.

We've talked about a similar thing before - would suggest this case is different. For the facilities / launch attack buttons there are 5 and 3 buttons. There are 13 combat buttons, excluding ones on right side. Not convinced having all 13 of them visible at all times is the best solution, though some are mutually exclusive. It may be as, or more confusing/thought intensive than only displaying relevant ones given the number.

You may be right about moving the OW/delay to the right side. Will have a think about this when a little less tired. Likely the best solution is to stack them in order of their likelihood to be relevant and add alternate textures for disabled state.

Glad you liked the intro :)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 05:14:46 PM by Daithi »

ushas

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 06:39:57 PM »
We've talked about a similar thing before - would suggest this case is different. For the facilities / launch attack buttons there are 5 and 3 buttons. There are 13 combat buttons, excluding ones on right side. Not convinced having all 13 of them visible at all times is the best solution, though some are mutually exclusive. It may be as, or more confusing/thought intensive than only displaying relevant ones given the number.

You may be right about moving the OW/delay to the right side. Will have a think about this when a little less tired. Likely the best solution is to stack them in order of their likelihood to be relevant and add alternate textures for disabled state.
So it can look like this? -

LEFT
Image serves for change weapon

Small ones:
-- Action type toggle: walk, attack or use, throw (options depending on weapon)
-- Weapon modes toggle
-- Maintanence button: reload / unjam
-- Incapacitate toggle: peaceful / fatal
-- Stance toggle: crouch / stand


RIGHT
End Turn

Small ones:
-- Inventory
-- Character sheet
-- Delay turn
-- Overwatch buttons
-- Flee the battle button?

Seriously, we aren't piloting a helicopter. No offense, but thought intensive... um, how is that phrase - my arm?

Don't think anybody is advocating for currently not relevant ones to stay shining and be interactive (although liking when it says "stop fooling around"). The main issue the whole time is only the button dance. You definitely have a point about communicating irrelevancy to players.

Taking into account the likelihood of being relevant sounds good. I suppose there are several stages (relevant always > under certain circumstances > never)? Then to what it relates, but also simply how often used...

Grayed out/colored versions (as it's easy to edit textures), or applied transparency, or even making them disappear might work (but without moving?). Etc.

Edit: Guess, having tendency to trim fat. I realize there might be other and better ways, it's your call. The objective is only  provide some point of view.

Glad you liked the intro :)
Yeah came here to be critical, it's easy to forget that there are also nice things to be mentioned.
Not that there wouldn't be like 100+1 small improvements possible:)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 07:17:50 PM by ushas »

Nomad

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 05:02:03 AM »
Damn. Ahead of me again. How do you do it?:)
Just lucky I guess.  =)

Saw it too, makes AI look smarter, tbh.
Or they first moved to you, so don't have enough for blunt weap. attack anymore but for the fists yes... 
Yeah, I was thinking about this and was going to add a note.
You're completely correct.
They ran up to me, then changed to unarmed because they wouldn't have had enough to do the armed attack.
The first guy died after he ran up to us. The second lived and therefore switched to the heavier claw hammer for his next attack.
There's NO issue here. I think they all did the right thing.

Yeah, having "Unload weapons" button/key would be great.
In the meantime, another workaround (I don't want to use that shop update) is to drag one piece of hot loaded ammo over the weapon -> think it'll unload all the regulars as they are not compatible. Busy work though and now requires facility.
lol... yeah... you beat me to it. I thought about this last night.
I have 3 bullets. I'll hot load them and use them to empty 3 guns.  =)


Also, just an observation.
The Investor Perk is appearing in the unavailable list.
It says it needs Sam and 30 Trade.
I am looking at it with Sam and he has 31 Trade.
However, he doesn't have any Perk points. Though, I expect this shouldn't matter, because if it did, then all Perks would appear unavailable.
So, not sure what's happening with the Investor Perk.

Edit: Note. My trade is now 32 and the Investor Perk is showing in the Available list. Not sure what was going on there.


LOL.... I can't hot load the 3 High Calibre rounds I have... because the crafting requires 10. It won't let me do just 3.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 07:27:35 AM by Nomad »

Nomad

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 07:10:31 AM »
Another bark spelling issue.
Mafia goon called out something.
"This arsehole is slippier than greased something..."
I don't know the exact wording.
slippier should be slipperier.

Nomad

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 09:11:28 AM »
Tag Perk.
Is the description correct?
I'm reading that it provides a 1.12% damage bonus.
That means... you get 1 extra damage for every 100 damage you do?
That doesn't seem right.

ushas

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 06:57:33 PM »
Just lucky I guess.  =)
Hm, hm... Suspecting your luck of timezone advantage:)

Tag Perk.
Is the description correct?
I'm reading that it provides a 1.12% damage bonus.
That means... you get 1 extra damage for every 100 damage you do?
That doesn't seem right.
The principle of balance in the Universe says that there ought to exist another game with another perk providing x12 damage bonus in description.

Could some of those spellings be deliberate?
For example - uttered by an enemy upon experiencing the bullet hit:
"You gunna pay for that."

Furthermore in relation to ammo. I am fighting Survivalists with automatic rifles. I am collecting their guns. I still only have 3 High Calibre Bullets. The shop hasn't stocked any (probably been over 5 inventory refreshes since I've collected High Calibre rifles). Enemies are using the ammo, but not dropping it (they are not running out as the guns still have ammo, but I can't empty the ammo and take it).
Not sure why you aren't getting ammo. As a temporary workaround, put sl into console and click a few times. This increases shop level. You can use rs to regen the shop.
Haven't encountered enemies with assult rifles yet. But did some long sleeping and checking the shop every day upon refresh. The first time I got high calibre rounds in the offer was on AUG 06 (Vigilante difficulty). You could buy assault rifles many times before that (like half a month already). Not saying anything is wrong, just not sure if intended.

On opposite note, if gradual way is desired maybe medium calibre and shotgun shells don't need to be available from the get go. (it took time before I saw first shotgun) Btw. looks always the same amount, 22 SCR - 22 MCR - 22 SS, for example.  Was thinking, would it make sense if Cuda's ammo offer is somehow tied to the weapon offer of the day?

Ooo new items! Uh, Patriot is holding small caliber now?

The shop refresh mechanic itself - shopping more exciting.

Edit: Ha, I'm an idiot. Literally citing info about how to refresh the shop via console... but nope, I went and used the good old sleeping. :o

I suspect, however, that there will be some complains about the game being too hard. Mostly boils to getting used to the game rules though. That doesn't necessarily mean dumping down, esp. if would come from misunderstanding. But yeah, we two probably won't be able to tell how hard it is for newcomers. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 02:03:35 AM by ushas »

Nomad

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 12:47:26 AM »
Yeah... I'm loving the new guns. They look cool.
And... thanks for the lack of ammo I am using different guns.
We were using the new two-shot semi-auto pistol, the Mac-10 looking sub (Elena's default gun, the Bellum 9), a sniper rifle and I was using the new assault rifle (Nobuki Samurai) and scavenging ammo from other guns.

Now I've got everyone using sniper rifles because I had the medium calibre ammo. I've also been buying up the High Calibre ammo when available and stripping ammo from assault rifles before I sell them. Now I've got over 100 rounds of High Calibre.... but I'm still using 4 snipers. Loving it.
All I ever used before was the Raskol 148 (or whatever that assault rifle was called).

I took out another facility.
Daithi... I have a question...
I attacked a Survivalist facility. I thought they were all armed with at least pistols. I got 4 Safe pictures for my loot window. I succeeded at opening all 4 Safes.
So, with everyone dead and getting loot... I only ended up with two pistols. I mean, I got some grenades and ammo... but... I'm not 100% sure... But I was expecting a lot more guns. It is possible that only two were armed... but I would swear they all were.
Is loot being collected at the end of a map?

Nomad

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 12:59:37 AM »
How do you beat a facility?
I've hit the same Survivalist base three times now. Two of those attacks were one after the other.
Am I supposed to be doing something? Or are facilities additional sites that they can choose to invest in, rather than Rackets which is what we are supposed to be shutting down.

I think I answered my own question.  =)

ushas

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 01:59:20 AM »
Oh. You got to the base, but without getting to the boss? That's good question.
Or do you mean like you attacked the same facility on the same tile right after? (did you get intel from each battle?)
Hm, a lot of things including battles cost time now. Would it be possible that they managed to build another one in between?


Quote from: Daithi
will tackle soon
We will report and brag about things but does it all need to be dealt with soon?
So far (10+ missions), no big bugs coming on my side (hadn't gotten as far as Nomad yet). Those small ones, I'm thinking about holding them captive till getting promise that they won't be tackled soon:) (or being berated for unprofessionalism, whichever comes first)

Btw., some games have threads about known issues and workarounds. As we're playing in advance, you may as well have something at hand for the EA launch. But depends what is applicable. Right now comes to my mind as useful to warn linux (and perhaps mac) players about alt-tabbing. If you want I can sum it up for them.

Nomad

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 08:20:11 AM »
I'm pretty sure Facilities don't work like Rackets.
I was attacking a Facility.
I don't believe I've found a Racket yet.

I have 33% intel on one Survival mini-boss and 66% on one Mafia mini-boss. I have no information about any Rackets.

Daithi

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 10:50:19 AM »
How do you beat a facility?
I've hit the same Survivalist base three times now. Two of those attacks were one after the other.
Am I supposed to be doing something? Or are facilities additional sites that they can choose to invest in, rather than Rackets which is what we are supposed to be shutting down.

I think I answered my own question.  =)

Have sort of used enemy facilities & rackets interchangably - they are the same thing. So attacking one doesn't remove it?

Daithi

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Re: V20 feedback
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 10:53:16 AM »
Tag Perk.
Is the description correct?
I'm reading that it provides a 1.12% damage bonus.
That means... you get 1 extra damage for every 100 damage you do?
That doesn't seem right.

Should be 12% ... whoops