Author Topic: Dim Mak perk  (Read 176 times)

ushas

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Dim Mak perk
« on: March 09, 2018, 01:26:41 AM »
The following is for v24.

1) On duration of effect
Elena has Dim Mak as well as Solar Plexus. Sam acts first in the round. Then Elena, she uses Dim Mak. She manages to Wind and Paralyze an enemy. Then it's enemy's turn but as he is paralyzed he passes it. Next it's Sam again and he attacks the same enemy who evades. Huh? Looking at the tooltiop the enemy isn't paralyzed anymore so was able to evade but he is still Winded, which is 1 turn effect.

It appears the paralysis was taken down on the enemy's turn not when it's the next Elena's due. Meaning for allies to use the paralysis - they need specifically act after the Dim Mak character but before the enemy in the queue order.

Got used to that things last in turns, and IIRC 1 turn duration is usually from the start till next turn of the one who triggered it. So adding different ways how to work with initiative - I would say that's interesting. On the other hand, so far the game pretty much favors all party having high Fleetness (and all having high initiative is also the best for this perk when the Dim Maker is the one who is the first). Although finding out synergies is very rewarding, if many of those synergies lead into high Fleetness... Dunno.

Not saying anything is inherently bad or so, only musing upon context of things.


2) In combination with Adrenaline
Had this specific situation: Two guys with Elena. She paralyzes both of them in a turn while using Adrenaline herself.
So... who's gunna act next after she ends the turn?

As it happened, it was the guys. Both of them got a turn before Elena. Technically could be a side effect of the above if she was behind the guys in the queue order (but unsure about that, both sides were ronin at the time). Anyway, regardless if a bug or feature, just wanted to point out such interesting outcome (as in this instance using Adrenaline was counterproductive).


3) OW paralyze
No worries, OW Dim Mak works all right. Just there is something which may or may not be debatable, again depends on intentions (eg. this time it's a question when the effect starts). If a character ends the turn overwatching with Dim Mak and there is an enemy passing through tiles adjacent, the OW will trigger but the enemy is still allowed to continue his turn. I've had in OW paralyzed guy continuing walk till Sam and attacking him (and afterwards he is paralyzed).

Feedback: Provided how presented would rather expect it interrupts like when incapacitation happens (i.e. when health<=0 then a unit is interrupted in everything and drops at the spot, it doesn't continue dancin' and later drops down upon turn ending).   


4) Paralyzed folks barking: yes/no/duh?


5) CTH advantage
Am uncertain how exactly paralysis works. Apart unable to act there supposed to be some CTH advantage right?
So far tested only in CC and the tooltip shows 95% (told me the head-kick is around 80% CTH). Haven't missed so far. In case the paralyzed one is to be completely vulnerable to melee, then it should say 100% (including when targeting perhaps?).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 05:13:48 PM by ushas »

Daithi

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Re: Dim Mak perk
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2018, 03:18:32 PM »
Agree, how Dim Mak, and a number of other perks works will need to be revisited. Thanks for pointing out a couple of snags.

Daithi

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Re: Dim Mak perk
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 03:49:34 PM »
Dim Mak now makes characters miss 2 turns. It provides +30% CTH to ranged and close combat attacks. A successful attack on the paralysed character will break the status effect. They no longer keep moving if hit on OW. Can talk if they like.

Curious, how would you evaluate this vs artery strike and staggering blow? Are these perks worth a perk point?

ushas

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Re: Dim Mak perk
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 05:39:04 PM »
Think I worded the whole feedback chaotic, sorry for that. Was probably tired, lol, the point #2 was stupid :-[
I would say the original [character misses 1 turn] was pretty much powerful on its own. Would take the perk just for that.

Then on first thought this
Quote
Dim Mak now makes characters miss 2 turns.
sounds like overpowered...

And
Quote
It provides +30% CTH to ranged and close combat attacks.
sounds like one more CTH multiplier...

For myself, [miss 1 turn, CC sure aka 100% hit, Ranged CTH +X%] liked probably more as one can pull it powerfully yet not always. Depends on the playstyle though, this is like just my current opinion^TM. The main question is how much situational you want it to be and what is the spirit of the perk. So if the changes fits your idea better no problem. Just hoping my chaotic feedback didn't make any damage. (edited to make it more clear, it was worded in hurry before)

As for the OW interrupt and breaking paralysis on hit that sounds very interesting!

My main concerns can be summed: So there are various effects and more ways how we can interact with the queue. I pretty much like the complexity if that is intended. However, with more possibilities on the table it's not communicated clearly when/how each ingame effect starts/interrupts/ends (therefore I'm also unsure what is intention). Dim Mak is a useful example for this, because as a player I wrongly generalized from how other effects worked. I suppose if you say in the description that paralyze ends as soon as the character passes the turn(s) or is hit, whichever comes first, then it will become much more clear how it works.


Curious, how would you evaluate this vs artery strike and staggering blow? Are these perks worth a perk point?
Hm. I have some notes, but it's probably too old. Do you plan to change those too?

I would say prohibit an enemy act even temporarily sounds more powerful than each of them if must compare but as a player I wouldn't evaluate things as narrowly as just said. Probably not helping you:) 

Think once I had Ray taking all the blunt perks and initially it was tough but later with higher CTH he bacame a POWERHOUSE 8) Edit: Initially used HtH more due to low CTH and AP, while more and more in favour of blunt weapons over course of the campaign. Don't know whether you planned for them to build a bit later but pretty much enjoyed such effect. A lot changed since though, think this was v19.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 11:55:33 PM by ushas »