Vigilantes > Gameplay Discussion
Your thoughts on Enemy Facilities
Daithi:
Yeah, not sure what exactly it is at present - will have a look at it - usually start conservatively and scale up.
ushas:
So far in v19 - found all facilities via district surveillance. It's very handy. Think I got one lvl 1 emerging on a tile with enough intel as it got build.
No interrogation of enemies after facility attack?
I know we are getting one intel piece from facility, but can't choose what? Perhaps there is some hierarchy, as I got different intel from lvl2 racket than lvl1, but in a way it may not feel different to having normal mission and interrogating specialists. I guess the difference is that destroying facility harms the gang more and getting intel is not percentage based but sure. However, I can imagine getting person-interrogation too. It's a breakthrough in investigation after all...
Daithi:
Will look at intel gain rate in general. A guaranteed piece of intel is pretty decent though.
ushas:
It's not only about probability but also about value of intel. As far as observed, the maximum one can obtain (racket vs. specialist) is the same? (thus thought about having a chance to get twice as that). More below.
--- Quote from: Daithi on September 09, 2017, 10:32:35 AM ---I'm going to leave as is for now. There is a problem at present in terms of how fast intel is gained, so sizable changes will be required. Not married to the idea of intel being required for rackets, however, rackets are much more strategically valuable than lieutenants, so it would make sense to have their requirements at least as high. A fully upgraded racket costs 6-8k, so I think it needs to be more substantially protected.
Maybe there's a solution in the possibility of some of the work being done through surveillance, and some being done through interrogation.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I know, you said will leave it for now, np. But you also asked us to evaluate pacing and difficulty as far as remember. Must say it's more challenging to do when one also has to dodge "after EA" bullets. Though serves me well, as being constructive wasn't technically requested. Aha!
--- Quote ---rackets are much more strategically valuable than lieutenants
--- End quote ---
From my perspective as a player looks the other way around: lieutenants > rackets > specialists.
Probably misunderstood how the campaign works or will work (not even encountered a lieutenant yet). So take the following only as an explanation how I see this right now (v19): Strategically, the most important is to take down the boss. I got impression only Lieutenants lead to him? The intel from deliberately attacking facilities seems on the same (max) level as stumbling upon a guy on streets (specialist). Thus lieutenants are strategically more valuable than facilities. Perhaps we can even win the game without attacking any non-main racket?
Harming gang income is lower on hierarchy, unless, there is some economic victory possible - oh, can we induce a total gang bankruptcy?
As for the solution of rackets - it's not my place to tell, just that one way of looking at this problem is by treating detection and launching an attack as two separate events. Won't even need to change Cityscape (intel info vs. launch button). Then you can balance requirements for each part separately, possibly even make them dependent (balancing). Similar for lieutenants. In some stories it works such way that you often know the place (suspect the person) but need to do further investigation for be able to break in (caught the guy).
An example: Initially, 1 (1-2) intel pieces is enough for detection (identification), and this can be obtained by any means: interrogation, facility outcome, surveillance, from npcs, etc. Once that is fulfilled, then 1-2 intel pieces are required for launching the racker (leader) mission, but can only be obtained from specifically asking in interrogation, or from searching dead bodies of higher ranks, or perhaps from lvl 2 facility, etc.
But as said, just one view. Please, don't let me limit your imagination.
Daithi:
--- Quote from: ushas on September 15, 2017, 02:08:56 AM ---It's not only about probability but also about value of intel. As far as observed, the maximum one can obtain (racket vs. specialist) is the same? (thus thought about having a chance to get twice as that). More below.
--- End quote ---
Rackets will likely also have a chance to provide intel on lieutenant, or perhaps boss if upgraded.
--- Quote from: ushas on September 15, 2017, 02:08:56 AM ---Yeah, I know, you said will leave it for now, np. But you also asked us to evaluate pacing and difficulty as far as remember. Must say it's more challenging to do when one also has to dodge "after EA" bullets. Though serves me well, as being constructive wasn't technically requested. Aha!
From my perspective as a player looks the other way around: lieutenants > rackets > specialists.
Probably misunderstood how the campaign works or will work (not even encountered a lieutenant yet). So take the following only as an explanation how I see this right now (v19): Strategically, the most important is to take down the boss. I got impression only Lieutenants lead to him? The intel from deliberately attacking facilities seems on the same (max) level as stumbling upon a guy on streets (specialist). Thus lieutenants are strategically more valuable than facilities. Perhaps we can even win the game without attacking any non-main racket?
--- End quote ---
I agree. It was a little short sighted of me, as had a very strong feeling intel gain was too slow. Concerning value, it depends on how you look at it. Lieutenants are more valuable for making progress to finish the game (for now: rackets will likely also serve this purpose). Rackets require a large investment, providing both immediate bonuses and increasing the rate at which the gangs can purchase upgrades, so taking them out will weaken the gang's strength in tactical combat, and slow the progress rate.
--- Quote from: ushas on September 15, 2017, 02:08:56 AM ---Harming gang income is lower on hierarchy, unless, there is some economic victory possible - oh, can we induce a total gang bankruptcy?
As for the solution of rackets - it's not my place to tell, just that one way of looking at this problem is by treating detection and launching an attack as two separate events. Won't even need to change Cityscape (intel info vs. launch button). Then you can balance requirements for each part separately, possibly even make them dependent (balancing). Similar for lieutenants. In some stories it works such way that you often know the place (suspect the person) but need to do further investigation for be able to break in (caught the guy).
An example: Initially, 1 (1-2) intel pieces is enough for detection (identification), and this can be obtained by any means: interrogation, facility outcome, surveillance, from npcs, etc. Once that is fulfilled, then 1-2 intel pieces are required for launching the racker (leader) mission, but can only be obtained from specifically asking in interrogation, or from searching dead bodies of higher ranks, or perhaps from lvl 2 facility, etc.
But as said, just one view. Please, don't let me limit your imagination.
--- End quote ---
No economic victory :) Will keep your idea in mind - this area will definitely be revamped for V21.
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