Cityscape

[ushas]

Opening thread for all kinds of feedback & suggestions for the city screen.

I suspected it's going to undergo changes in the future anyway. However, there is this one change I would like to propose to be done earlier if you agree with the notion:

1. Top Panel for Cityscape
With the zooming and scrolling over the map, couldn't be possible to add top home panel on top of this screen too?

Here is a mockup for illustration:
https://s26.postimg.org/keb0nb2vb/Vigilantes_Cityscape_mockup_v19.png

Edit: Apologies that it went too far off the course. Doing mockups in gimp is a kind of hobby for me. As was thinking about the Citiscape for some time, tried here and there small changes with each version. Hadn't have enough time for making a new mockup from the ingame screen. So at least posted the current iteration of the old one, because I really think the top panel could be handy.

The main thing is really just the top panel:  AFAIK there is no physical traveling happening between home and city map. The amount of clicks and mouse movements the panel can reduce is big. Additionally, no need  back home  and  manage party buttons on cityscape itself anymore. Personally, even with more allies I will more often need to check the character sheet or inventory than manage party.

Advantages apart interface functionality: can easily see cash, time and weather forecast before launching the mission. 

That's all for now.


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Summary of feedback & suggestions (apologies for repeating old things), but feel free to skip now.
Approx sorted from the most important:

2. City surveillance (as of v19 now) means a lot of mouse clicking and traveling.
The issue of bouncing back and forth city <-> debriefing was already highlighted by Nomad in this thread:   
http://timeslipsoftworks.com/forum/index.php/topic,215

Just take a look at the rollercoaster: from home (top) -> click on a tile (left) -> surveillance (right) -> from debriefing screen back to map (up) -> surveillance (down) -> back from debriefing screen (up) -> surveillance (down) -> back from debriefing screen (up) -> surveillance (down) -> back from debriefing screen (up) -> launch? (down)... Now multiply that by 64, and take into account intel deterioration over time...

Nothing against debriefing. Can see it useful right before the mission starts. But is there any reason why it needs to switch there after each intel piece uncovered? Couldn't be all the info already presented / highlighted on the city pane?

3. Buttons shouldn't change position
Also already mentioned by Nomad in the above thread (accidentally launching when the launch button moves at the position of the intel one). In the short, I believe it's not good to go against the muscle memory. It's better to rather grey out and make them unusable when buttons aren't needed anymore/yet. 

4. Special treatment for Surveillance button
Seriously, it's like the most active guy on the cityscape. Shouldn't it be the closest to the map? And perhaps more near the top, esp. if the top panel is on the city screen too.

5. District info vs. mission info
Relates to discussion in the pacing thread. By my very vague understanding,  some district properties are set in stone at the game start  (gang, wealth?),  then strategic parameters can change over time in various ways  (intel lvl, crime, facility, leader),  and then there are things tied more to the mission type - but still in a way relate to the district and overall state of gangs  (relative change in numbers/buffs/equipment). Don't we have more enemies when attacking a facility? Isn't leader more dangerous than district mission on a low danger tile? Etc...

Theoretically, can be divided between the district and the mission parameters. However, the posted mockup itself is just a brainstorming. Not everything needs to be given away, am unsure what is or will be useful to know. Not even liking the look of it (too button-like), just tried to bring it closer to char. screen.

6. Ability to choose type of mission

7. Camera and more zooming out
I guess it depends on resolution, but I could use more zoomed out view and still be able easily pick the district.
 
8. Keyboard support
A proposal of keys in the attachment.
 
9. City Map and district coordinates
Functionally, only needed is to show tile coordinates. Info on the side panel is probably enough, albeit on the map it's more handy. Not particularly fond of those neon highlights though. Trying to put aside my fondness for maps, I think the city might look better when it's like framed on the wall - perhaps similar wall as behind Sam's portrait.
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[Daithi]

1) That looks really good, nice layout and composition. Did you draw all the elements? If so, you can finish the game and I'll go on holiday I agree on the benefit of access to the top panel buttons. To make the UI more manageable, it's split between a number of canvases and classes, and the Main UI and City UI are separate. It's doable, and will look at it a little down the line.

2) Honestly, the debriefing for surveillance just wasn't a good idea. This is another thing I'll look at after EA.

3) After EA...

5) I'm not entirely happy with the City UI. Many of the UIs will need to be adjusted. I've saved a copy of your layout and will keep it for ideas.

8 ) Will add this as possibility

9) District number is now showing up, just added a few days ago. Agree that aesthetically, city UI isn't there yet, will be having a look at all offending UIs.

[ushas]

Thank you for nice words. But when I said a mockup - literally did that (aka botched quick editing and rearranging in low res). The most elements originate simply from the game's screenshots. Probably downloaded and edited some free paper background. Glued a few more icons. Albeit knowing how to make stuff in inkscape, making vector icons is above practical for me. On the other hand, I guess it's sometimes useful to quickly see things in advance. Lol, for me it's faster than write feedback in words. Now I realize, forgot to ask for permission: Is it ok to post mockups in public like this, any restrictions?

What I really like on the city UI and hope you can preserve is that you're giving visual clues via changing intel icons. Also a tile-based city - neat!

Ad 1: Kudos for considering it!

Points 2+: wanted to give basic explanation what was trying to accomplish, not to just post image and adios. Agreed, it's not needed to deal with now. But you know, the world will still spin after EA.

The UI layouts, how it looks... that can be changed to conform with intended functionality and presentation. I'm more interested in what is or isn't communicated, when and in what way. It all sets the course how you want people experience and play your game. I know aesthetics does matter, just seeing it more like one of many tools, if that makes any sense.

[Daithi]

Thank you for nice words. But when I said a mockup - literally did that (aka botched quick editing and rearranging in low res). The most elements originate simply from the game's screenshots. Probably downloaded and edited some free paper background. Glued a few more icons. Albeit knowing how to make stuff in inkscape, making vector icons is above practical for me. On the other hand, I guess it's sometimes useful to quickly see things in advance. Lol, for me it's faster than write feedback in words. Now I realize, forgot to ask for permission: Is it ok to post mockups in public like this, any restrictions?

It looks better than the existing one, so hopefully can take some queues from it. There are really only a few of the UI screens I'm happy with (mostly aesthetically, but functionally in some cases). A lot of the time the first drafts are quite basic, but they will get better in time. By all means, post away and use any existing assets you like in them.

And fire away with suggestions, it's good to have them for when development becomes less time sensitive, not trying to discourage by waving the EA stick around

[ushas]

Glad if helps, of course. I understand, also from prioritizing standpoint. Wouldn't post that myself, at least not yet (or more likely never), if not for the top panel. Btw. was criticizing my layout, when said it would be probably better on wall, but couldn't help myself with the map. Also when you click on compass...

From UI screens, aesthetically I like the character sheet the most, but the citiscape is the most intriguing.
 
Well, trying to take it into consideration as you asked us for areas to improve before EA.

Hm, you have quite a list for after EA... Perhaps this is really stupid idea (don't listen), but have you considered highlight some selected areas how you plan to improve the game further as part of the EA pitch? I understand, that you prefer not promise things till they are like sure, or preferably already implemented:), so not good if pushes out of comfort. On the other hand, it may as well play well, as opposite to most other cases.

[Daithi]

Glad if helps, of course. I understand, also from prioritizing standpoint. Wouldn't post that myself, at least not yet (or more likely never), if not for the top panel. Btw. was criticizing my layout, when said it would be probably better on wall, but couldn't help myself with the map.

Helped so much that have recreated something similar... looks much better, thanks! *Cough* Gang intel *cough* screen...

Also when you click on compass...

You aren't going to be happy until you make me cry... again

highlight some selected areas how you plan to improve the game further as part of the EA pitch? I understand, that you prefer not promise things till they are like sure, or preferably already implemented:), so not good if pushes out of comfort. On the other hand, it may as well play well, as opposite to most other cases.

Yes, outlining objectives will definitely happen. There are some areas that would be beneficial to improve, so will definitely summarize development intents.

[ushas]

*Cough* Gang intel *cough* screen...

Some preliminary thoughts:
  1. Personalizing the view for each gang so they appear to function differently -> Different layout of the hierarchy. Mechanically they are the same - 4 underbosses + 1 boss, but you can just pretend that one of the Mafia underbosses is Consigliere by simple arrangement. Couldn't each confessor have as if different domain?
  2. Would be neat to have a row of trophies to be filled by specialists who gave an intel piece, as if they were links in the chain, a part of the hierarchy. Esp. if you used your own list of enemy names, very satisfying... No pressure, but already making a list.   
  3. Perhaps put either gangs or (people & rackets) as tabs on the top (or bottom). Now it's all on the left. A little bit non-intuitive how one has to switch things.
  4. Seems facilities uncovered via surveillance on city map (not from interrogation), aren't reflected on the gang intel screen. Only the main facility?
  5. It's info screen, but still can be interactive. For example, if enough intel is done to launch racket/leader mission -> a button that brings you on city map and chooses the adequate district for you...
  6. Don't know if we can choose how to deal with lieutenants, but adding there date of encounter and what happened to them could be neat (eg. deceased vs. in jail)

Edit after starting v20: Looks better! I've made exactly the same changes in the mock-up - photography and classical top-down hierarchy. But also got rid of the tables. It makes sense for districts as the info have gameplay meaning. Whereas for gang members, if doesn't matter what color of eyes they have -> doesn't need to be strictly categorized. Somehow feels underwhelming being shown:  Detected 60% of person #4... Making them more human wouldn't be bad.

However, @Daithi, by chance in case you weren't just making fun of me about the gang intel screen, it would be really useful to have some basic info, at least how looks when higher intel uncovered. Unsuccessful hunt for lieutenant for the mock-up resulted in finding bugs in v19, so was good for something. But don't think I will manage to reach further in v20.

Btw. "when you click on compass..." => Toggle city info. Was only thinking about preserving functionality.
Sometimes feels like "fire suggestions" is being almost literal. Not particularly eager to commit harm, tbh.

[Nomad]

Nice mock-up ushas.

I'm sorry Daithi.  =P

[Daithi]

Nice mock-up ushas.

I'm sorry Daithi.  =P

I'm with you on that. Have adjusted current graphics based on the idea, and it looks a lot better now.

[ushas]

Nice mock-up ushas.

Thanks:)