Author Topic: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn  (Read 19987 times)

ushas

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Re: [Resolved] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 02:32:38 PM »
Would our play matter somehow in this, like if wasn't a nuisance at all before?
Because I really slept like ~20 days without fighting with anybody. I don't even remember whether, except the initial one, undertook any mission against Churchers. It's possible that all previous battles earlier in game were against Mafia and Survivalists. Not sure though.

Daithi

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Re: [Resolved] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2017, 02:37:30 PM »
Took a while, but this was being caused by a facility increasing equipment level of gang medkits, except it was actually incrementing the equipment type (resulting in an extra unarmed item), rather than improving the first aid kit quality. Nice work Nomad and Ushas for the clues for solving this one!

Daithi

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Re: [Resolved] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2017, 02:39:38 PM »
Would our play matter somehow in this, like if wasn't a nuisance at all before?
Because I really slept like ~20 days without fighting with anybody. I don't even remember whether, except the initial one, undertook any mission against Churchers. It's possible that all previous battles earlier in game were against Mafia and Survivalists. Not sure though.

Yeah, it would be a factor, but I've suspected there would be a problem here. Having max number of facilities in 1 month, even if largely unhindered by player is too fast.

ushas

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Re: [Resolved] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2017, 03:14:56 PM »
Aha! Who would suspect medkids...
The same for Mafia I suppose?

Yeah, it would be a factor, but I've suspected there would be a problem here. Having max number of facilities in 1 month, even if largely unhindered by player is too fast.
Naturally, some tuning is to be expected.
How long do you expect the whole campaign can last?

Daithi

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Re: [Resolved] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2017, 04:46:41 PM »
Will move this back for now until mafia issue has been checked into more - I'm not getting a crash for Mafia - they haven't gotten an upgrade for medkits. Have you had any crashes when fighting mafia?

@Nomad - any chance you could send on your save file so I can have a look at it?

ushas

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Re: [Resolved] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2017, 05:25:38 PM »
Have you had any crashes when fighting mafia?
No. Will hunt.

Daithi

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Re: [Resolved] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2017, 05:30:57 PM »
Guess would be that the mafia have improved their first aid kits, and caused the same issue, but it hasn't happened on your save, yet has on Nomad's save.

Nomad

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Re: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2017, 01:58:32 PM »
I hope my save was of some use to you.

It should also give you an idea of my progression.
You can see how much of the map I have revealed and how many Lieutenants I've gotten information on.
I've gotten info on Survivalist and Mafia Lieutenants number 4 (at 33% detection each).
Compare that to my advancement, their advancement and the in-game date, and that should give you some feedback.
Mind you... my interrogations haven't been going great. I haven't used a single interrogation drug so far (this game).

Edit: You can also see how much I've spent on Workshop facilities so far.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 02:10:57 PM by Nomad »

Daithi

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Re: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2017, 02:38:28 PM »
Cheers Nomad! I'm adding weapons at the minute, hope to add another 10 or so weapons in this update - will go back to fixing again in the next few days. Yes, very useful to get a feel for how player progress is - can i ask how many hours roughly you have clocked up on that save? Think that gang leader and racket detection is too slow by the sounds of it. This could be addressed by reducing number of intel pieces required (3->2) and allowing you to occasionally get better intel from basic enemies.

ushas

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Re: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2017, 03:44:31 PM »
Huh, weapons before EA?
How many do you plan to have in the final release?

Think that gang leader and racket detection is too slow by the sounds of it. This could be addressed by reducing number of intel pieces required (3->2) and allowing you to occasionally get better intel from basic enemies.
I might be wrong - doesn't it depend how probable is to get a higher ranked one for interrogation? Had missions against specialists, but only once was able to interrogate one. Usually it gives basic troops. If random, makes a sense. But perhaps upping weights based on rank is more realistic?

Daithi

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Re: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2017, 08:11:39 PM »
Huh, weapons before EA?
How many do you plan to have in the final release?

Content is likely the single area with the biggest gap between current and final, so yeah, trying to get a few more in. Have most of images etc, so it's mostly just adding the data. In final, likely 2x as many items as will be in this update.

I might be wrong - doesn't it depend how probable is to get a higher ranked one for interrogation? Had missions against specialists, but only once was able to interrogate one. Usually it gives basic troops. If random, makes a sense. But perhaps upping weights based on rank is more realistic?

I set it to pick highest ranked character not killed for interrogation in V19, but I might have missed something. If you kill everyone, you should rifle the pockets of the highest ranked...

ushas

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Re: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2017, 09:53:12 PM »
I set it to pick highest ranked character not killed for interrogation in V19, but I might have missed something. If you kill everyone, you should rifle the pockets of the highest ranked...
Ok. Let's not believe my treacherous memory. Probably works as you said. There are many aspects at play that might influence perception. Think what I wanted to say is that in 13 regular missions on the main path of Vigilante difficulty so far (btw. not killing this time) got intel on Lieutenants once, otherwise only tiles. What I perceived as specialists may not be promoted yet, or if I got them into interrogation -> wasn't lucky to get intel... I suppose, as the game goes we will see them more and more often? So perhaps promotions is something to keep an eye on as well? 

Also, usually letting some enemy flee if possible.

Daithi

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Re: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2017, 10:07:14 AM »
Ok. Let's not believe my treacherous memory. Probably works as you said. There are many aspects at play that might influence perception. Think what I wanted to say is that in 13 regular missions on the main path of Vigilante difficulty so far (btw. not killing this time) got intel on Lieutenants once, otherwise only tiles. What I perceived as specialists may not be promoted yet, or if I got them into interrogation -> wasn't lucky to get intel... I suppose, as the game goes we will see them more and more often? So perhaps promotions is something to keep an eye on as well? 

Also, usually letting some enemy flee if possible.

Let's not believe my treacherous programming ability either :) Increasing promotion chance is certainly possible, or revising how it happens. Would be wary to make too many of them appear early in the game. Yes, you will see Tier2 troops more often as the game continues. Intel on lieutenants/rackets should be slow starting out, but would hope this would increase over time. It's something I'd be interested in feedback on in relation to number of missions/time spent.

Another possibility is providing a piece of intel as a result of a dialogue encounter.

Nomad

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Re: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2017, 04:39:10 AM »
Yes, very useful to get a feel for how player progress is - can i ask how many hours roughly you have clocked up on that save?

Feedback is very useful... of course it is... let me help.
How many hours?... err... let me see... I'm pretty sure it was a LOT.
Note the capital LOT. It wasn't a lot, it was a LOT. Yup... a LOT of hours in that play.
Was that useful? I HOPE so.

I might give you the impression that I'm not sure about time played. Might be an idea to go by game calendar instead. You know how much time actions take, so hopefully that will be sufficient.
I would guess I was doing about 4-8 hours a day. I probably did... a bunch of days...
Hmm... I guess the short answer is... I don't really know. Not to mention that there were many lock-ups that required me to kill the game and replay maps.


Edit: Oh... and I love the idea of maybe getting some info via a dialogue encounter.
Either via a skill-based check...
Or... even another one where the dialogue leads to either some info on a lieutenant or a piece of equipment or some cash or something?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 04:42:16 AM by Nomad »

ushas

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Re: [Nomad - Can you help?] Enemy not releasing his turn
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2017, 11:50:37 AM »
Another possibility is providing a piece of intel as a result of a dialogue encounter.
From spoiler reasons didn't want to pry your plans with them, how combat and non-combat NPCs will influence the campaign, but always thought this as one of their purposes. But probably because talking about interrogations and dialogue encounters, before you implemented them, led me mistakenly think it will be like in Shadow Watch (i.e. scripted interrogations as non-combat encounters in between combat ones, where dialogue options may lead to different clues and missions). Now seeing it's simulation-strategy approach, of course.

Barbarians don't even influence district parameters, AFAIK, so naturally one would expect some sort of closure later?

Note the capital LOT. It wasn't a lot, it was a LOT. Yup... a LOT of hours in that play.
Was that useful? I HOPE so.
Tbh. your perception of time spend to be "a LOT" may as well be more useful information than exact playtime with nanosecond precision.

Am preliminary thinking that the progress is a bit slow, indeed. Also in comparison to how fast our party is leveling and some enemies are tier 4 equipment or so, yet haven't caught a lieutenant or found a facility...

That said I see no problem overall, seems wheels underneath function well. Naturally, to reach satisfactory balance entails a bit of iterating upon, but I suspect it's easily achievable with a fair number of parameters at disposal Daithi has.


Content is likely the single area with the biggest gap between current and final, so yeah, trying to get a few more in. Have most of images etc, so it's mostly just adding the data. In final, likely 2x as many items as will be in this update.
If I may, would suggest adding primarily items diverse from those already in (opposite are upgrades, for example, eg. two assault rifles we already have). Just thought that content - like missions, perks, allies, items, crafting,..., might actually suit EA. To keep people interested with a new stuff... There is always demand for more items. If you add too much now, could have worse position later? To be clear - just musing aloud, totally clueless here.